In the UK!

http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/display.var.2221821.0.merseyside_has_biggest_drop_in_crime.php

All I can say is, either all of the asb and burglaries are in one part of the Wirral or nothing gets reported any more - I haven't noticed an improvement!

The asbo kids have just got faster .

Ive noticed, over the past decade (since Labour got in surprisingly), a literal year on year increase in anti-social crime.

Now, I will give the housing association and local council/police all the credit in the world, they have worked wonders with the flats I live in, turning them from ASBO central into a nice, quiet area with an ever stregntening community atmosphere and finally a good future over the 2 years I have lived there.

But everywhere else just seems to get worse and worse and kids and youths have no respect for anyone nowadays, not even themselves.

Crime hasnt dropped, it has increased. The reporting of crime has dropped, as has the logging of crime due to amount of paperwork the police now have to do for each crime reported...

nope..sorry matt..not having that one "The reporting of crime has dropped, as has the logging of crime due to amount of paperwork the police now have to do for each crime reported..."
so much so in fact that we have civvies whos performance indicators is how many crime reports they take....which are then passed to officers to deal with...

work that one out!

When a crime report is generated is doesnt just magically "go away"...not until it is throughly investigated and a report written and read by half a dozen people to Q and A it....

Could it just be...and im clutching a straws here prehaps..that we are working harder..and bringing more people to justice than ever before...

crime is down...but perception crime rates isnt..thats far harder to actually deal with...and infintely harder to measure!

I don't doubt the work rate of the police; they do a damn hard job and I have all the respect in the world for the job the police do.

It's the justice system and the way the government runs the country that causes people not to report crimes. I know plenty of people who feel its not even worth reporting a crime anymore because in their opinion it would just "fall on death ears as the police are useless".

The police are just doing as much as they can, it's the government who are actually to blame, but either way, I see more and more crime year on year, but less people are bothered to report minor crimes now as they know it won't lead to anything.

Also, the figures surely can't take into account the ASB crime that goes on everywhere, smashing up of bus stops, fighting, vandelism, intimidation by gangs etc, these crimes are very very rarely reported.

So I stand by my point; crime levels have not dropped, the reporting of crime has, crime, moreso ASB related crime, is on a rapid increase year on year imho.

It doesnt help the fact that criminals, when prosecuted, never get anywhere near the appropriate sentence, in fact under Labour, they are more likely to be released without a custodial sentence to go do it again!

"Also, the figures surely can't take into account the ASB crime that goes on everywhere, smashing up of bus stops, fighting, vandelism, intimidation by gangs etc, these crimes are very very rarely reported."

they get reported by the council...who own the property damaged...so yes they are included....

further to that..."It doesnt help the fact that criminals, when prosecuted, never get anywhere near the appropriate sentence, in fact under Labour, they are more likely to be released without a custodial sentence to go do it again!"

The point of prison ISNT to punish..its to protect society from those offenders and to rehabilitate...

your argument is therefore somewhat flawed...

added to which "I know plenty of people who feel its not even worth reporting a crime anymore because in their opinion it would just "fall on death ears as the police are useless"."

you wouldnt belive the incredibily petty crap people ring us up for all the time....trust me!

Actually, that is pretty shitty, come on, some little gobshite kills a child, you are honestly tewlling me they shouldnt be punished, you think they should be "rehabilitated?

And how many of these criminals are repeat offenders, its the same people over and over again, prisons don't punish OR rehabilitate offenders, they practically reward the low-life offenders. Im not saying some don't come out and never want to go back, but to most criminals, its just a walk in the park.

How are the prisons supposed to rehabilitate prisoners, when the prisoners practically run these private prisons (you never seen the Whistleblower report on BBC).

And where is the justice in rehabilitation, justice is in punishment. This is eaxctly what im getting at, the justice system in the UK is an absolute joke, I didnt think the police were of such a cocked up mind as the government, rehabilitation my arse, this country needs to get real, bring back the death penalty, make prisoners work very very hard, get the fookers into line, not give them playstations and tv's and 3 good meals a day, half of them wouldnt even get that on the outside!!

A prisoner should be punished, not "rehabilitated", it is extreme punishment that keeps them out of prison, not failed rehabilitation programmes...

Get the fookin army in there to give them all a hiding a day, teach the fookers some respect for other people, a beating a day keeps the crime away imho. But I forget, rehabilitation does so much better!

And as for repeat thieving ..., cut their hands off like they do in Middle Eastern countries, and as for convicted rapists, cut thier goolies off!!

er..Im not saying I agree with the system..you miss my point...but THAT is the current thought process behind prison and has been for sometime.

I dont make the rules...just observe and enforce them....

The problem is greater than just making sure "justice" is done...if someone kills a kid...whatever you do to them never brings that kid back...or eases the pain of the family left behind...
an eye for an eye is very simplistic and still doesnt solve the problem...

Take somewhere with extreme punishments such as saudi arabia...cutting off someones hand for theft....are we not as a civilised society somewhat beyond that?

How can you punished someone who has nothing to loose...half of the "customers" I used to deal with in area havent got a pot to piss in...so how can you punish someone with nothing to loose....

therefore is prison a punishment? it isnt because its not designed to be.

Look at the States...at the moment they have a HUGE prison population...bigger than ever before...and they do hard time/executions etc....and they hand out serious penalties...like 20 years for possesion of class A drugs..

and wheres it got them...the criminals are more violent as a result..because they still commit the crime but are more desperate to get away and as a result its far more violent over there.......

We subscribe to Human rights...something that the states dont...whilst it makes my job harder at times....I still am of the opinion that it is better that 10 guilty go free rather than an innocent man be jailed wrongly...

at the end of the day..."If you have ten thousand regulations, you destroy all respect for the law."

whilst rehab may not be the full answer...stiffer penalties arent the answer in a civilised society either...

I ave experience with living among the arabs in Saudi Arabia, and I have to say in the 8 years I lived there, I did not hear or see anyone doing any sort of crime. Now I am not saying that people didnt commit crime, they did. But due to the harsh punishment, it detered people from doing crime. So although I believe not such punishments would work here in the UK, I do think they work in some societies.

The only problem with UK, is although we do have punishments, they still are not harsh enough for some crimes committed. The other thing, is although a jail sentence is given, if they appeal it, more often than not they are out half way through it. They dont learn!

I also noticed you put 'I still am of the opinion that it is better that 10 guilty go free rather than an innocent man be jailed wrongly'.....we obviously dont have a very good justice system if you feel that we would get it wrong.....it wouldnt be of any opinion if our country and government did their jobs right!

So......although I believe maybe we shouldnt have punishments like Saudi, I do believe that we should change somethings about the way we deal with certain crimes and punishments.

And to be honest I would agree with Matt, I think that if they were to bring back certain things, then a lot of our crimes would drop! And to be honest some people probably commit crime because they get a better life in prison than they do out. Going to prison is a sort of punishment, unfortunatley because of how our prisons are now, its like walking into a hotel room, no-body learns from it, and then judges/police/government all wonder why criminals commit crime again!

Me being one of them.

I had some drunken idiot hit the 200 awhile back went out spoke to the lad and was told i would be killed by him so thought sod it call the police they came round gave the lad a ticking off and let him go.

He came back round half hour later with a bar so rang the police again who didnt turn up and phoned me back asking why i had phoned

Delt with this myself BUT wasnt happy with the response i got as i was told it was a friday night and the police were bizzy.

I have had a appologie from the police since as i reported this matey but the answers simple they are under manned and have there hands tide.

Crime on the wirral seems to be going up not down as the amount of things that have happened in my street alone has more than double in the last 5 years.

Saying that the its stopped of late as the family who lived by us have left and crimes down.

i think the problems the courts as they just dont give out a harsh enough punishment.

OOps

Started this thread and then haven't been back on here for a couple of days and there's loads of replies.

I guess the point that I wanted to make was that I'm a firm supporter of the Police and the work that they do but I do feel that there is a surrender of the streets and a general ignorance of small or petty (I hate that description) crime. I see this all the time in a general, continual degradation of the environment. Round where I live you only have to look at:

- what seems to happen on a weekly basis to Flaybrick cemetary.
- the burning of cars and fly-tipping on Bidston hill
- the new houses that are going up near the 7 styles regularly getting thier windows put in
- a large number of burglaries and attempted burglaries in our street and
- walking past the new houses at St James a couple of weeks ago, someone had pulled up all the trees and tipped the bins out.

It all adds up to a general feeling of inscurity about depression about the standard of respect that people have towards each other and their property.

I always make the effort to report things to the Police or the council but shoudl you really call 999 if someone is breaking trees as this is only way that they are likely to get caught?

call 0151 7096010..if its a non urgent call to the Police...

I lived in Bahrain for 4 years..and also have experience of the arab way of life....crime still does go on....but people are just terrified about doing anything wrong..such as jaywalking...they rule but absolute power and fear...
is that really a civilised way to live? not in my humble opinion
...isnt the whole point of democracy and freedom of speech why millions of people fought and died for our rights over the years...

as for my comment..'I still am of the opinion that it is better that 10 guilty go free rather than an innocent man be jailed wrongly' you also miss the point...
we have an excellent justice system in that it must be proved that someone is guilty beyond reasonable doubt...a far higher standard than civil law..on the balnce of probabilities...and the US system is also of a lower standard of proof.


Whilst we all rant about minor and petty crime...locking people up for it isnt the solution..education, good parenting and challenging ASB is the better way.

Comon..how many people bitch and moan about getting tickets for minor things like..speeding, no seat belts, like numberplates etc etc etc....

if we really clamped down on things...and jumped all over people for minor crimes...would it solve things...I very much doubt it!

The quintessential thing about the UK is the stereotypical idea of a bobby on the beat..they public hate the fact we even wear stabvests asthey are a bit too aggresive looking...so we tone it down with hi-viz jackets...

I think of lot of people think the grass is greener on the otherside if we were harsher...but I bet money that push comes to shove...people wouldnt be at all happy if we were more strict and handed out harsher penalties...

The problem with the American justice system, IMO, is that they've made it political. You *elect* many local judges and district attorneys over here, and they stand on political tickets. It's only at the highest levels that they're appointed, but even then, the appointments are still political ones, e.g. Bush loading the Supreme Court with the most right-wing judges he could get approved.

As regards "crimes", you wouldn't believe some of the things that get reported *and acted upon* in my local (and very rural) area. The cops have to justify their existence, as they're paid for locally. I've seen a report where one kid poured a can of Coke (or similar) over another kid and **was charged with harrassment**.

If I remember, I'll scan the next 'court report' section from our weekly local scandal sheet, and put it up on my WWW site. It should give you all a laugh. One of my friends recently retired as a sergeant in the Manc. police, and he said he near died laughing when I e-mailed him one of the 'court report' pages.


Brian.

Ok, for starters, freedom of speech, yeh so many people fought for it, shame it doesnt really happen anymore. Unfortunatley for the british citizens, you say anything about or to a black person, and your done for racism...thats not freedom of speech. I could say that I dont like asylum seekers in our country, and I would get hung,drawn and quartered for being racist, and yet I lived among them for 8 years!

Now you say you lived in Bahrain, fair enough....but living in Bahrain and Saudi are two completley different countries, with different cultures and beliefs...bhrain is a much more leniant country..I mean for example, in Saudi drink is illegal, as where its not in Bahrain! You dont have to cover up in Bahrain, you can eat bacon in Bahrain. The reason why alcohol banned, is because a prince went out and got drunk one night and raped a young girl, so the royal family banned drink! I have been to both places, and they are not the same! Although Saudi is strict,notice how not many people will put a foot out of place! And like I said, although I believe they wouldnt work in our society, they do in others!

You say better parenting.....you give me 3 possible ways in which you would start good parenting?......

An as for bobbies, the public dont care what you wear, as long as they feel safe in the knowledge that your doing your job right, and that if they had a problem, it would be sorted for them. Am sure at the moment, not many people do feel like that.

We want a country whereby we feel safe...we know that we can go out on the streets and nothing will happen. That old ladies can be safe in knowledge that they can walk to any destination without being hassled. We dont live in such a society!

All I am saying is that although Saudi's punishments maybe would not work.....longer prison sentences...detention centres....no appeals against sentences....more community service....and make it less uncomfortable in prison...take away luxuries that they have....tv...playstation and such things, am sure criminals wouldnt want to be in there. You could always add on, if they have already been to prison for rape or murder, bring the death penaltey back!!!

Load of crap lol, Live life how you want to, Too short to follow or care about all this crap lol

Remember that the next time you or someone you know are a victim of crime...

I meant all this freedom of speach crap, Not crime mate

yeh well one day....freedom of speech and all that crap will affect you. It affects you now, you just dont realise...you going to vote on thursday?....ya know if you dont vote people are going to start gettin fines through their front door.....there will be things in your future that u wont agree with....but because you dont care about this crap...its people like you that have that have the same views as others, but because you dont care...you dont try and help others n changing our society for the better.

Me vote ? LMAO Never voted in my life and don't intend too

I don't take note in all that crap, Bores the hell out of me TBH.

Then you are happy to just sit down and be a slave to the state for the rest of you're life? You don't want any say in where you're tax is spent? You're happy to have you're hard earned money taken off you to look after the fat cats and aristocrats?

I dont give a damn about local elections, and thanks to Labour refusing to allow me onto the electoral role I won't be at the next election on Thursday, but come the next GE next May, I for one will be voting, to get this ... out of power!!

fair enough....thats up to you isnt it. Expect a coupla fines through ur front door

Also, I recently recall you moaning about not being able to get a job, that you really want to be in, that treats you well and you are satisfied with... a lot of this is to do with many factors that can be directly related to the way the country is run, and the people who are elected, by you, the public, to run it.

Without ever voting, you have (along with all other people who never want to vote), imho, no reason to moan. If you vote for a losing party/candidate, at least you have grounds to moan.

And Matt I completely agree with you! I want this ... out of power aswell, they aint doing nuthin for our country!

They are all ..., The world will never chance,

Im sorry Nikki but they cant fine you for not voting, And if they do id love to see them try.

well they are bringing it into power (though its only people that are on the electorol register, if your on there but dont vote)...have in said all that...are you still happy to let our society carry on the way it is....if you are and you dont vote, you really dont have a foot to stand on if you complain about anything, as your not helping the situation in adding to the many votes that could change the future of all our lives!

Our lives wont change, England will never change

our lives could change, but not for the better. But as i say its ur choice what you do...:)

FK ME!!!!!!

Do you not get it!!!!..the very reason you have the ability to stand there and say something...nay the right to say that IS because people have fought and died for our freedom..and carry on to this day...fighting for our way of life!

So next time you make some obtuse flippant remark..pause and think why you can in the first place...

Chill......

you will find that a lrage amount of our younger society dont care about our cuntr and whats going on in it...theres only a small minority that do care.

Younger im older than you..... You make out that im a lil young chav know it all.

Oh and i think you are forgetting, I wouldn't of joined up the army if i didn't care about some stuff......

no i didnt say that, i just said that a lot of our younger generation dont care.....i am younger than you, but the difference is, i do care!

no i fkin wont when you make such obtuse comments...you in a single comment disrespect me, my job, the reason for my job, the personal sacrifices i made and continue to make...let alone all of the free and democratic world history by your abivilant attitude!!!

grow up and engage your brain before you engage your mouth!

oh n by the way, you didnt stay with army tho did ya

No Niiki and you know why so don't even start that, Has nuffin to do with all this.

Auditastic, Thats freedom of speach for you!

sorry sean...i was bang out of order! At the same time evryone and values and morals...we respect that, its whether you do anything to get them actioned.

People have different views on things, It will always be the same and never change.

well thats your view hun

My point there, people have there own views and everyone is going to thing they are right and the other person is wrong cause its there own view, Its what makes the world spin round, Just like we all have dif tastes in things, We all have dif views in dif things!!!

understandable, i aint dissagreeing with you....everyone has different morals and values...its what you feel is right for you....but then you have to understand that wats right for me is to vote and get different people into power, that may do our country a bit more good.

I respect that, Never said i didn't, Was just giving my view on the matter weather you all wanted to hear it or not, Freedom of speach

lol...fair enough....it is freedom of speech...though you know if you want things to change in society...you have a vote there, why not use it....by the sounds of it, you havent got anything to loose.

in my view, and it is only my view, whoever you vote in becomes a bit of a fat-cat and yet another drain on public funds. one mp who does well for the people is frank field, pros and cons everywhere really, but its only my view. hat off to sean for his service, would be a different country if nobody was bothered

I think its fair to say when i was younger etc
we have all maybe had the same attitude, and its also fair to say it could be because it just doesn't interest you.

That's fair enough.
At the moment i'm guessing you have few real responisbilities.
But in years to come i'm sure you will, and its then with the
likes of children and a home and pensions you will be drawn
into the polotics even if its to give your children a betters start.

I for one am so pleased i havent had a child going through
the younger education system over the last 10 years, as they
have tried so many New concepts to education there is only
one looser IMO and that's the kids. They have to follow the
powers to be.

But the point being,
to hold the opinion of "I dont care" for the rest of your
days in reality just wont happen. You will be involved,
trust me you will.

You don't have to vote your right.
But when your child's education is suffering in your opinion or
you have to sell your mums house to pay for nursing her in old
age will make you think

The vote will come to you.

I would agree there with that tbh....

I am only 19 myself, younger than most on here, but due to the lifestyle I have led, I do also realise the important things in life. Eventually in everyones life they realise that who rules, and has the power matters in society.

I like the way this topic has gone from crime to voting and our government. We obviously have some members on here with strong opinions.

I know that, Im 21 now live with my mom no kids no house so nuffin to worry about at the mo, Im sure as i do get older and have kids settle down etc etc i will care, But at the mo while my money and life is my own i wanna live it and enjoy it not worry about the government, If you get me,

You wont all agree with me and i understand that, Like i said its what makes the world spin round

Good points Mark, I remember many of the most radical politicos that I knew as students now have 2.4 kids, a mortgage and pay into ISAs - reality has the effect of mellowing the most radical of polictical views!

So what are we going to do about the kids on the estates around on the Wirral?

well my missiz just came downstairs saying she herd a screaching car and then some lad jumped over the wall across my road and ran off while ripping off his coat. then 2mins later a police helicopter done a awesome tight turn right by my back garden scaring the crap out of me and then in hovered near my house. looks to me like the stats are low cos they cant catch them

think he might show up on my cctv? hmm

The law is an ass!

Years ago, if you misbehaved, a clip round the ear was well in order, now though, that leads to assault claims, legal claims etc and its just not right.

Younger generations have no respect for anyone or anything anymore.

I propose vigilante squads with the aim of dishing out random beatings to anynoe stood on a street corner, drunk, or being abusive.

On a more serious note, maybe more could be done with involving parents with anti social behaviour charges....

update...~Sniffer dogs outside my house

tenner says they will get him...

ah police at my door there is 5 cars in my road now

catching them or not doesnt affect stats..the crime report is still generated..only when they are actually charged/cautioned/dealt with by way of fixed penalty etc etc are the crime recorded as "solved" for a simplistic view...

they will well gethim..its daylight aswell..makes it a bit easier..

must be serious for so many to be involved. i checked my cctv but my dog has chewed thought the wire of the camera i needed . got a nice video of the chopper above my house tho lol

lol..more likely everyone was bored on mornings...

took a picture through my curtains lol

I've been nosing through old threads and found this little gem Thought I may as well put my two penneth worth in

IMO - our justice system needs only one thing...the government to butt out and let the Judges and the Police set the rules and sentencing llimits etc. WTF do the Government know about what it's like to live in the real world!?!

I can remember the days when you'd get a clip round the ear from the local beat bobby. Now the chavvy little oiks know more about the law than those of us who work in it!!

As for prison, we've had this discussion before but I still haven't changed my mind!! 10 to a cell, 1 bucket, locked up for 23hrs a day, 15 mins per meal and 15 mins for a shower - cold. You should be charged a daily rate for your detention at Her Maj's pleasure and if you can't pay, then you should be made to work doing something useful. No TV, no playboxXstationcubes, no getting a degree in prison, no nothing!!! It should be punishment!! (Sorry Dave x) I have a lot of time for the Police and feel sorry for them when cases they have worked hard on get thrown out by the CPS due to insufficient evidence. I also feel sorry for all involved when people get given Community Service. I still think they should be made to wear bright orange boiler suits with "I'm a thieving chav" or "I mugged an old lady, aren't I a tw@" on them so that everyone can see what they have done. Rapists - big fat R tatooed on their foreheads, paedo's - a big fat P on theirs. You get the idea

Bring back the birch, public flogging and the death penalty. In these days where we have DNA etc there is (or should be) very little room for "miscarriages of justice". If you do the crime then you should do the time - no feckin whinging about it, no saying how hard done by you are - bollards!!!

Rant over - for now.....................

Go Jaci!!!

Go Jaci

Warn me in advance if your going to meet Hoseman - the two of you together would make the Spanish Inquisition look like they just issued parking tickets

The sentences are back to front, you admit your a smackhead and you get a lesser sentence!!!! being pissed is a mitigation!!!, verbal provocation is a mitigation!!! certain proffessions get lesser sentences!!! if your admitting you have done something else illegal or irresponsible your sentence should increase not decrease.

Hoseman and I know each other well already. There are certain things we don't discuss He's a lovely guy so I'd never take it personally anyway - plus he's bigger than me

Just make prison a living hell, and problem solved. Life in prison once you have committed and been convicted of 3 crimes since the age of 18. Longer sentences as standard. And an UAE style police system.

Who the fook would want a life of crime then?