Right guys,as u may know on sunday e got this far


Yesterday we finished up and started her,to cut a long story short,shes running 1.6 ECU,1.6 exhaust.idles like shit,exhaust is red hot just behind cat,i mean hot as in smoking and glowing,and im not sure if the coolant is flowing,oh,and ive got a dead battery and alternator warning light, alternator is connected properly,but it had snapped the live cable? any ideas why it wont sort its idle out,im tryin to give it enough time to reset the ECU but by after a few minutes the exhaust is so red im afraid for it,so i stop it

Working pic link,admin feel free to edit into one post

How is the timing?

If it is to far retarded it will be igniting the fuel as it goes in to the exhaust making it hot and hard to idle

how could i fix that? the timing belt is fine and is as it was when the engine was in its donor car,can i advance the spark somehow?

TBH Scoop, I havnt really followed all the threads on this engine swap

First Im not to sure how the Zetec engines control their timing - All ECU or do they have a distributor / cam angle sensor?

Second, maybe the 1.6 ECU doesnt know whats going on if your using the new engines sensors.

Thirdly, if its a 1.6 ECU running a bigger engine it will be running lean which causes extra heat.

Guess Dazza is your man on this one

yeah dazza shud know,hes ran 2.0s on 1.6 management fine,im hoping after 20 mins of running the sensors will tell it what to do.The wiring loom is the same,only 1 sensor is different and thats the air temp one,need to wire that in myself as the plugs are different shapes. It has a cam angle sensor.ill run it for 20 mins later and hope the ECU realises whats wrong and adjusts the timing as necesary,cos surely a 2.0 needs a more advanced spark than what a 1.6 ECU can give but dazza manages it.My method of cheating the PATS didnt work,i need to work out another way,possible maybe removing the whole immobilising system

:s
First, make sure coolent is topped up - after running the engine it will circulate around the block and heater matrix so will need topping up and bleeding the system of air.

The warning light on the ALT will be the thin blue wire, If youve connected this to a 12v source (pos on the alt) it will stay on, also if you have done this - The light will remain on whislt key is NOT in the ignition which could be why you have a flat battery.

The 'lumpy' idle sounds like an air leak, make sure your inlet bolts are all tight aswell as all jubilee clips (on the throttlebody, airfilter etc).

Is the exhaust is smoking bare in mind you may have dripped oil/water on it so its being burnt off. If your using the 1.6 ECU try putting the 1.6 injectors back in, its possible the engine is running too rich and thats causes the exhaust gases to burn more and hotter.

You wont be able to remove the whole immobilising system as its incorparated internally on all ford ECUs. Id concentrate on getting it running smoothly on the 1.6 ECU before you plug the 1.8 in.

What do you mean PATS ?

Sounds like timing like Sir Stuy say's.
But Honrable Dazza should be able to help.

Be carfull if its going red hot AFTER the Cat?
Read this - > Catalyst Convertors The Second last paragraph.... (heat v's Life)

Scoop, If the exhaust is Glowing After the Catalyst then its only oone of three problems.....

1. Serious over fueling and then the fuel is igniting in the exhaust instead of the combustion chamber.

2. The ignition timing is too advanced, this means the fuel/air mixture is burning in the exhaust as the spart is occuring when the exhaust valve is open.

3. The valve timing is incorrect yet again causing the fuel to ignite in the exhaust.

4. Have you changed the exhaust or catalyst ? If so the catalyst could be blocked/collapsed or the exhayst could be blocked/collapsed.

Option 1 is possible due to ECU or sensor onflicts. Option 2 is the same as option 1. Option 3 is not possible if you have not replaced the timing belt and it was okay on the old car. Option 4 is highly possible, maybe drop the exhaust off the car and see how it runs ?? If it runs clear then the exhaust is suspect.

Hope this helps ??

cheers guys,air leak? was thinking that,but seriously doubted it,until before,when i head a hissing on the shit part of the idle,u see it runs up to 1100/1200,then falls to 700/800,on the fall it hisses.Air leak,or ISCV breatthing?

water-dont think its circulating the system,after over 20 mins of run time the hoses are cold-luke warm and very squidgy,hardly any water in them at all yet the header tank is to max,and the cap is off

Zorst,standard 1.6 item all through and all pretty new stuff,glows a lot less now so i think the ECU is learning to advance the spark

Smoke-all clear now,it was a)butrning surface oil and b)evaporating water off the floor

Alt light-still there,and its wired how it shud be


Voltage checked the battery and ive got 13v,when a battery runs low does the voltage go lower or not?

Gonna put 1600 injectors in tomorrow,put 1600 MAF on today and it seemed to help.

Also have a problem with throttle, any slight movement of the throttle linkage makes the engine "run away" and fly up the revs,be it by foot or by hand on the TB it excessively high for tiny openings of the throttle,maybe the TPS is sending duff signals to ECU?

Any answers to the problems stated here

Water flow
Alternator
Throttle

Not too sure what all of that means.
All engine sensors are compatible with the 1.6 engine anway.

The lumpy idle sounds like a denifate airleak to me, check tightness and use new gaskets if need be.

If you using standard exhaust system and your certain the 1.8 ran fine in the old car - I stand by my comment of swapping the injectors back to 1.6 items, its over fueling.

Keep the header tank filled, always allow the car to heat up until the fan kicks in. If after 20mins you say there not hot - What hose is not hot?

Just to add incase I dont read your reply tonight and you want to work on it 2mrw, if the waterflow problem is not the system needing to be bled its possible your waterpump has packed in.

Alternator - Are you sure the damaged blue wire has been connected correctly? Does the Alt charge your battery? When the engine is not running the Alt should read roughly 12v and once started will raise to around 13.5 - 14vish

Throttle - I dont know what 'fly off' means but I think your saying if you slightly rev it, it over revs too much. Id put this down to the airleak and possibley a faulty sensor (try disconnecting the MAF and see if it gets any better)

for the hissing have you checked the small breather hose underneath the coil? its an L shape and has a tendency to go on zetec but it would cause much hassle as is only a crankcase breather. for your coolant problem have you checked the condition of the water pump? also check the thermostat is working correctly. does it make a difference if you replace a zetec with a zetec e? i've only done a swap of the same cc which was straight forward.

Valid points pointed out by steveobennet.
If the breather under the coil was leaking it could puff smoke out and small droplets of oil.

Oh steve, the 1.6 and 1.8 engines he are swapping are identical apart from a few ancilliaries and the extra 200cc so no worries there

Right,back from another daft night shift and no work done on car,Intake is the black plastic variety dazza which has no noticable gasket(s) ill grolly it on tight when i get round to it next.

Breather hose is on fine

Alternator- Red wire is on the correct part of the alternator,the thin blue wire is plugged in where it was meant to be plugged in.


How do u tell if a water pump has packed up? and if it has,ill need to replace the cam belt,water pump,cam belt tenssioners and water gasket wont i?

Idle problem=least of my worries just now

My main worry is cooking the engine while trying to diagnose it. How long can an engine stay safe with no water flow? ie/how many minutes of conservative driving til i warp my head,or overheat my internals

The black intake, have you removed it or is it still origonal from the 1800cc donor car ?

Be sure to check for a hissing noise under the coil pack as there is a £3.00 "L-Peice" vaccum hose which is common to split which would cause you problems if its leaking vaccum.

Test the voltage across the battery when the engine is running, it should read 12 - 13 volts when idling and 13 - 14 volts when the rev's are raised to 2000 rpm.
If the voltage are okay then its a wiring problem and not the alternator. Also test the voltage at the blue wire as it should read the same as above.

Its difficult to test a water pump without removing it, was it okay in the donor car ? If it was then its probably okay... The only way to check it is to remove it and visualy inspect it but like i say if it was okay in the other car then its probably okay.

Double check all the coolant hoses are on in the correct places, double check you havnt crossed any over.

If you remove the expansion bottle cap and rev the engine you should see a flow of water from the small hose entering the top of the bottle, if there is no flow then rev the engine a bit.

To bleed the coolant system make sure the interior heaters are on position one and on hot to the screen, run the engine and rev the engine occasionally with the expansion cap off, as soon as the temperature needle gets towards 1/4 then put the expansion bottle cap on or it will overheat. Check for any coolant bleed valves to open but i dont think your car has any ?

Allow the engine to warm up fully and check the radiator fans cut in BEFORE the temp gauge reaches the Red. If they dont then switch the engine off before it gets in the red.

You can only run the engine for 5 - 10 mins before the engine will be damaged, like i said use the temp gauge as a guide, dont allow it to go into the red.

Let me know how you get on mate.

p.s. Good Luck

Right guys,still on my 7 day solid work thing..but ive found ways and means of gettin on the net. Car is here so i CAN work on it while im here.I leave on friday morning back to normal life and i NEED my car to leave with me.Had the battery out last night,fully charged and put it back in today,turn the key and.......click...again. It does naff all.

what do we think is wrong,i checked the fuses on the main power cable from battery to starter and alt,then i undone the alt wires jsut incase it was shorting there (mad idea i had)still no luck tho.

Is it a)****ed battery-it was off charge for 4 hours after bein fully charged so may have died again (it is 10 years old)
b)starter motor (heard it cud be the solinoid doin the clicking,but then again,it has started with jump leads with its clicky nature?)
c)somethin else


As for intake,im running 1.8 black inlet and 1.8 TB-1.6 box on 1.8 MAF housing,wheres this L shaped thing,i can only see the main cam cover to airbox hose

Please reply ASAP

L shaped hose sits betweem the ignition pack and the block, it runs from the front crank breather around the side of the block to the inlet - You'd be able to see exhaust gases escaping when its running if it was that.

If the starter is clicking it could be the battery does not have enough charge OR the start is at fault <-- But if a bodge trick but while cranking it get a mate to hit the starter motor, sometimes the vibration can loosen stuck solinoids, altho Iv never tried this.

Try using another battery and see from there. If you need it running revert back to 1.6 TB and MAF on 1.6 management.

Will investigate ur suggestions tomorrow dazza mate,Problem we have on 1.6 TB is it'd need the inlet too,as the 1.6 TB wont go onto 1.8 inlet due to TPS being on other side and stuff like that,it will run as is,just needs a charge,only thing is,i dont want to run it til it runs right (water problem)(which i think is fine,think it was just lots of air in system as water is deffo gettin thru into the pipes,if the water pump was knacked surely this wudnt happen)

1.How much are new batterys?
2.If a 2 year old battery has been sat connected to my dead car(1.4 green one) for 9 months,wud it be chargable if i was to replace the fluid in it,or is it ****ed for good?

Scoop, it sounds to me that you have left the main engine earth wire off........

Follow the earth wire from the battery and see where it goes. It should connect to either the engine or gearbox.

The battery may be earthing through the accelerator cable

If all that looks fine then try putting jump leads on it and see if there is any difference.

Also you could check the starter wiring. The main (Big) wire that bolts onto the solenoid be a permanant live and the small trigger wire should only be live when the ignition is in the "START" position (Ign Key Fully Turned).

Possibly the immobiliser thingy thats fitted to fords ??

Finally, a fial safe test, gat a wire and bare both end's, get someone to hold one end on the positave battery terminal and hold the other end on the small contact of the starter motor, the engine should turn over. This eliminates ignition wiring problems.

Let me know how you get on mate....

Started it today and got it to the building im living in and working from all week,had to bump (roll) start it as jump (lead) starting failed,just got the click so starter is chuffed i think.

Got it over here which is a 1 mile drive,temp guage rised into the very bottom of normal,stalled twice on dipping clutch but a quick clutch kick got it Bump started on the fly and i made the journey without becoming stranded on a dark road round the airfield

Problems on starting the car
The revs held at 3k for a while,then it idles very lumpy and very nearly stalled loads of times,needed a pop on the throttle to save it,revved well high with a tap of the throttle,(it even drove itself with no input as revs were rising on their own)

Thermostat-Rad hose still feels too soft,too much air in it,i did squeeze the hose with no cap on for about a minute after its run

Battery is fine now

Tomorrow im gonna fit 1.6 fuel rail and TPS,tighten the inlet,and maybe replace the starter with the one from the origional engine,or just **** **** out of the current one.Cheers guys

Sounds like you still have an airleak

would an airleak really fuyck me over this bad??

Yes definetly.
High revs, lumpy Idle and cutting out are sure signs of it mate

ill grolly it down in the morning see if it curez/helps it

Try spraying WD40 around the inlet manifold when its running mate, if you hear a change in the revs then its the WD40 getting in so your leak is in that area.

Shes fixed!!!

Engine runs now and is drivable,took it for a lap before and the power difference is noticable,however,at full throttle its a bit hessitant at some revs,also the alternator light is on when the car is running,and the temp guage rises and falls hugely fast but those are niggles ill fix later,at least i can drive home tomorrow when i get out of here.Cheers for ur help guys,cudnt of done it without u

The starter was bust,so i fitted the old one,including replacing the wiring that came off the starter (the whole face of the starter sheared off)
The air leak was a vacuum hose,how dumb was i to miss that

anyone know how the alternator wires are sposed to go,cos the way they are the light is on
And anyone know why the temp guage goes up,then drops down,then goes up again,could that be air passing over the temp sensor?

All in all,a good day for me.Cheers again dazza and jay

Fit a new thermostat matey, it sounds like the stat is sticking slightly.

which bits the thermostat,ill slave my old one in and see if it helps,alt is not working today,thats for sure.Voltage is not 12v+ when engine is running,anyone know which wires go where on the alternator itself,there are 3 terminals but i only have 2 wires connected

Typically if you follow the top radiator hose from the radiator and it normally goes into an alloy or plastic housing which is held on with a few bolts. You should find the thermostat inside there. All cars are slightly different, could do with pics mate.

Same on the alternator, pics needed. As a rule there should be one large terminal and one large wire, obviously these connect together, and see if you can work out the remaining wires ? Possibly check of the other cars loom and work it from there ??

Hope this helps and if your home i can have a quick peek at it for you

Bearing in mind this is NOT my engine bay,it is however,the exact same as what ive got in mine,is the thermostat that thing to the right of the lifting eye?there is also a sensor on one of the hoses tho,me thinks that sends the signal to the dash,and the thermostat talks to the fan? or is it vice versa,or both?

Yeah mate, thats the one and the sensor is for the temp gauge in your dash.

well wont that be the problem then,the yellow thing goin into the hose? cos its the gauge thats rising and falling way too fast,

Thats the one mate

Its held on by three 10mm bolts and has a sensor in the top and at the bottom. To reveal the thermostat itself there are three 8mm bolts on the side of the housing that the top rad hose goes into, once removed you will see the thermostat (Looks abit like a spring), I suggest you remove it and see how it runs without one - When Iv done my 2.0 engine swaps in the past I remove it completely to help the engine run cooler (Engine temps where concerning on my escort but not the fiesta).

Or just buy/fit a new one, about £8 from Halfords

any chance u cud tell me how ur alternator is wired up daz,as i think mines wrong

I cant really remember too much, you'll have a redwire (power) that has a selfcaptive nut on it and can only be put on in one place, the blue wire (for the dashlight) goes onto a spade connector and the third is for the black (earth wire)

Hope that helps in some way - If not google an image for me to look at

earth,why have i not got an earth,my red ones captive nut/ring termination rusted off so i reterminated it and put it on,blue wire is on the centre pin,i dont remember EVER seeing an earth,i thought it was earthed via its own body when i couldnt see any cables,where does the earth cable bolt to d'ya think?

It might not have a separate earth and is earthed as you say via its mounting points (Am trying to remember so may have it wrong).

Double check you've got a good connection on the wire you've fixed

There's three connections, two reds and one black. There's a brown earth that usually bolts to the position rail.
The reds join up together and go straight to the positive of the battery. The black goes to ignition.
It's the same on every car, colour codes and everything (red - live, black - ignition, brown - earth).

its at an auto electricians now,i dont have the tools or equipment (cable,terminations) here at home,so as i cant live without the car til monday,its at the leccies gettin done now,max cost 40 quid (as ive given him the spare alt)

I think she's all solved now,alternator,starter,idle,all fine, temp guage acted normally today so i think thats fine too now,only problem is its underpowered now,and theres hesitation there,get paid tuesday so itll get some super unleaded in there as well as some injector cleaner,and reset the ECU and go for the proper "spirited drive" on startup,that might clean her up

All that work and your in a worse position now than when you started

its still more power than the 1.6,and im puttin it down to either gunked injectors or poor ECU map(maybe cos i never "drove" it properly while the ECU was "learning" gonna clean the injectors and swap ECUs next week,t'will all work out fine dont worry

The only thing you can do is use redex for the injectors, the only other way to get them cleaned is ultrasonic cleaning and can be expensive.
I doubt its the ECU either but a re-configuration wont hurt.

Try and explain this hesitation and where its underpowered (what revs/load/hot/cold etc)

it seems to be any tempurature and FULL load only,its smooth as silk at all throttle positions except foot to the floor,where its kind of like,pull.no pull.pull.no pull.pull.no pull

Thats the only way i can describe it really,apparently theECU will work,its just i tried it wrong when i done it,i shudda wrapped my key in tin foil so the ECU wasnt communicating with TWO signals(thats why it got confused)

Never heard of that one to be honest

Try using the 1.8MAF with the 1.6 MAF sensor or the otherway around as am not convinced its working right - Or alternativly disconnect it and see how it acts

im using the 1.8 housing with 1.6 sensorbox in dude,
the above way is apparently the correct way to start it,when the key is turned the ECU communicates with the chip near the lock,which shud be the one matched to the ECU,if 2 signals are found then it wont understand whats goin on,i suppose,in principal,it works the same way as IFF on the jets,bit of RAF talk there for ya

The chip in the key only removes the PAT to be able to start the car, I thought ?

Try disconnecting the MAF, if it makes an improvement then the MAF is faulty and if not then its something else.

Nothing silly like the exhaust is blowing is there?

zorst is fine,the engine runs and sounds sweet,its only when ur on full throttle the engine just doesnt want to rev up smoothly,it goes quickly up a few hundred RPM,then slows its rate down a tad,then speeds up,then slows down

The chip is what disables the immob and alarm,the key will happily turn (as its the right shape) but the chip is what tells the PATS system that its the correct key,IE/if u double lock the car,then open it WITHOUT using the correct keychipped key,then the alarm goes off as u open it,and the engine wont start unless the correct code is recieved from the key when its turned to III

We'll see what happens next week when i try it,but i damaged the chip removing it from my mates 1.8 carkeys,only the protective cover of it tho

Ill try unpluggin the MAF when i drive to work tomorrow mate,but i doubt its that,it may just be the ECU bein unable to calculate the fuel for the air im running

After 3 months of running 1.8 im finally about to fit a 1.8 ECU and have all sensors running. So i shud finally see over 110BHP. Woohoo. Gettin a new ECU from ebay,im winning the bid

turbo it haha

had a 130 spec ecu and cams the other month shame i wasn't on cruise wirral that time or i would of sold them ya.

a little hint tho look out for orion si ghia's as they have 130spec engines in.

will keep eyes out for a 130spec ecu if ya want?

its alright now,sorted it. Bought a mondeo 115 ECU and adapted the loom to fit, works a charm,i now have the full 115+PS under my right foot and the increase ive noticed between 4 and 6k is huge. Pulls like a train now (compared to what it used to do) Idles really clean aswell

OK,the above quote was wrong. It WAS running rich when i initially fitted the BLOB ecu,now ive wired the air inlet temp sensor in and changed the plugs and now i believe its running full power. Not as fast over 4k but it WAS fast over 4k due the mixture being good up top end where the cams are "on song" Now its got good power delivery with the flat spot inherent to zetecs evident.GEtting it emissions checked next week to ensure its running stoich

Time to start modding then. First up is peco backbox and standard centre box removal (purely for noise)

Below comment aimed at CLJ and dazza


a mondeo does need to carry more load than the escort but the engine produces the exact same power/torque so the map is the same (give or take). The car wont be as quick as its a heavier car with the same engine. Are u seriously trying to suggest that they would have given the mondie 1.8 more grunt??

Its the same engine and same running of that engine. The map may have changed each year to get the engine to run a tiny bit more efficiently without sacrificing power but the engine components remain the same.So the ZETEC-E 1.8 will run on any ECU aslong as the PATS is matched or bypassed.

Last sentence is correct.

Yes the power is the same since they are using the same engine etc, the difference in maps is about load. X amount of load will alter the fuel ratio among other things. You will not notice this but am just making it known that its there.

Think of it this way, if these maps weren't there then if you have 5 passengers plus luggage going up a hill the engine will struggle to produce the torque needed so adjustments are made to cater for this. Using the same scenareo, if only the driver is there then another map would be used so not to give too rich a mixture etc - There are hundreads of maps each doing its own little bit to cater for a certain scenareo.