Has anyone done the rope trick to change the valve stem oil seals?

I want to change the oil seals but don't want to take the cylinder head off at the moment - yes, I'm in denial, I don't want to know what lurks inside - that can wait until the weather is a bit more reliable.

Any recommends on the rope to use, proper white cord or blue/orange poly stuff???

Rope trick - piston to bottom - feed [2m of 6mm ????] rope into cylinder through spark plug hole - turn engine to compress rope which will hold the valves up. Then use a topside spring compressor to remove spring and change the seals.

Alternatively there is the compressed air method - which I don't fancy, if something goes wrong the valves will drop - I prefer the idea of something physical being in the way to support them.

I need to check first to see that the springs aren't too deep-seated to get a topside spring comressor in, but I think there is.

take the head off for the best way, dont skimp, its easy on them!

Sounds like some oily fun! Rather you than me DD. I'm too lazy to even change a wheel these days...

Haven't figured out if it has dry or wet liners yet - I think its dry. If its wet liners, I guarantee the liners will move so I want to avoid this.

I will take the head off in the near future, I just want to get the smoke down to the level where the MOT station can see what car it is first

I've got a couple of syringes to get rid of the big wells of oil the head holds, means I don't run out of bed linen

what engine is it buddy?

Wouldn't it be easier to drive it into the dock?

what car is it? Not your Corsa?

the 1.1 is dry linered

Nah, its the peugeot, been getting stuck into it recently ....

So far ....

New Thermostat
New Radiator Fan Switch
Replaced Indicator/headlamp stalk
New Cambelt
New Rear screen washer jet
New OS Headlamp assembly
Cleaned/set spark plugs
New Exhaust flexi-gasket
New rocker cover gasket
New Rocker cover/baffle-plate spacers
Set valve gaps

Got given the wrong exhaust gasket the first time, got the right one later but was being a stubborn little get, and the gear-change linkage and anti-roll bar and other supports are totally in the way making it more than awkward.

Some toerag kicked a couple of panels and did some major keying to one side - its not too bad, panels will straighten. At the same time they slashed a BMW's tyres so I got off lucky.

Bas tards...

sounds like you've been busy DD

Not all of them - I have the TU1-H1a engine. I think the deciding factor is whether the cylinder block is alloy or cast, cast has dry-liners and alloy has wet.

Compressed air is safe as houses - cant rememeber the amount of times ive used that method to swap valve springs, retainers and stem seals

me too so long as compressor is on to top up any leaks

mmmm - I've even seen it done - but it would take a leap of faith for me to go for it, on a known good engine I might risk it, on a clapped out 20 year old unknown, I just can't bring myself to do it.

Problems I envisage ....

Compressor failure.
Eleccy failure.
Hoseline failure.
Oil that is sealing piston rings gradually getting pushed out and compressor not too happy about keeping up with air flow.
Stupid mistake by operator (I have plenty of practice with these)
Act of god (usually the case when working on cars - sometimes called sod's law)

The rope trick seems fairly idiot-proof (as long as I don't crank the engine when its holding a valve up) - unfortunately you can't do both rope and air.

Threads like this make me wish I didn't have to reply on mechanics etc - I'd love to know how to work on my cars.

The rope trick? I wouldn't even be able to work a tow rope!

While its enjoyable doing stuff that goes right - when you do repairs and the job starts going wrong it is very stressful. The amount of tools you need is ridiculous and expensive. And you are always learning, new tips and tricks such as the above.

The internet is a godsend to find discussions on what other people have done or come across. Also you can find parts quite a bit cheaper - I'm saving well over 50% on average for tools and parts through the internet.

If you want to do it, just make a start on simple jobs and gradually build up your tool stock and experience. You could get a scrapper and do it up - there are plenty of people on Wiki willing to advise and even help.

I've been pratting around with cars for over 30 years, still learning, still buying more tools all the time. Sometimes I do it for enjoyment (or at least some form of masochism) and sometimes out of need.

Whats actually wrong with the car - blue smoke on start up?

Thick white smoke when you pump the accelerator (when everything nice and hot), oil (not petrol) dripping out of exhaust, spark plugs oil-logged.

On idle there is a little bit of smoke, but when you hit the accelerator there is a new brighton sea-mist.

The breather pipes are getting more than their fair share of oil as well.

Just hoping to get it down to a level where it can be MOT'd and then will look into it and sort it out better afterwards. Need it on the road asap.

I'm not stick my colortune or compression tester near one of those cylinders until there is a lot less oil floating around.

Its going to cost me a tenner for a set of seals - its worth a go.

Not too sure it will be the stem seals - could be the guides.

Stem seals only tend to give a puff of blue smoke when cold; when the car has been stood, the oil runs down past the guides and burns - when the car is hot so little oil can pass the guides it isnt noticable plus the compression tends to keep the oil out.

I actually ran the Silvia race car without stem seals to help keep the guides lubricated, and it just gave a puff of blue smoke on start up - nothing at any other time.

Could also be rings, or headgasket if the smoke is more noticable when revved.

Shhhhhhhhhh! - I didn't hear that - As I said earlier, I'm in denial.

Actually, an advantage of using the rope method over compressed air is that you will be able to rattle the valves a bit and see how much play there is in the guides.

I know if I remove the head, I'll probably find out it will need a skim - in which case I need the alternative gasket. Also mega worried about wet liners moving, needing new seals for them and the job escalating at the least convenient moment in financial and practical terms.

I might just shred some PTFE tape and throw it in the oil and see what happens

tbh it sounds like a piston sealing problem ie rings as the crankcase is pressurised more than it should be

Certainly when turning the engine over by hand, there seemed to be one cylinder a bit weaker than the others, next time i'm on it I'll find out which cylinder it is. There is no great blowback from the dip-stick ( don't know if on this engine the oil clears the dipstick tube when running or not), quite a bit of blowback from the oil cap, felt worse though.

Can't run these engines without the rocker cover on which used to be a good way of "learning" what's going on, the rockers are splash fed with a baffle plate above them.

I'll put the compression tester on when I get the chance.

Valve timing was a little out, just one notch - they've designed the cam belt area so its easy enough to change but difficult to position the belt. Some of the rocker gaps were a bit wide, it seems to be a lot worse for smoke since I set them. I double checked them all after I did it - they aren't perfect but close enough. I assumed they were to be set cold - haynes doesn't say cold but doesn't say to get the engine hot either - so I just assumed cold.

Well I've been well and truly snookered on this through my own lack of observation.

The rocker shaft is held down by the head bolts, the risk of undoing the head bolts and not replacing the head gasket on this mileage is too big. So I will have to take the head off anyway.

I might use a blind-fold, I want to stay totally ignorant of any problems I see when the head comes off

Make sure you unwind the nuts off in the correct order, not that you prob need telling

Andy - go help DD, your a bit of an expert when it comes to pulling the head off it

As followup to this, took the head off, changed the headgasket and valve stem seal.

The old stem seals were completely perished, with bits broken off them. Cylinder walls are near-perfect and stem guides have no noticeable play. Head gasket had signs of a weakness but no signs of oil/water crossover so either caught it in time or its had some additive treatment that repaired it.

Longest part of the job was getting the remains of the old headgasket off the head and cleaning up the surfaces - will do it on a bench next time, pratting around on the ground didn't make it any easier. And just to punish myself, I changed the exhaust manifold gaskets as well and had an equally hard time cleaning those surfaces.

I've got the head and rocker shaft back on, just have to wire and plumb it back up again.

i reckon the head gaskets been done in the past and the lazy barstard didn't replace the valve stem oil seals (perished/gone hard due to engine overheating)?

Yes, it has had a major water explosion at sometime so probably overheated. Did a quick check, the head was flat, not too thorough, as I had no intentions of getting it skimmed, the car is already into negative equity.

I think it has had a fairly recent headgasket change - too many things undid too easily. The exhaust manifold nuts were only just above hand tight, I took the trouble to remove the heat shield first expecting the usual agro.

Head bolts were supposed to be 20 ft-lbs + 240 degrees, just two steps, I did three steps up to 20 ft-lbs and 3 steps up to 225ish degrees (90 + 90 + 45ish)..

Any idea what torque is normal for chunky copper manifold nuts, with thickish gaskets (3mm?), I put them up to 20 ft-lbs as haynes didn't specify.

Give it up man! Buy my celica instead
Full Mot and brand new clutch, bargain at £750 and your 205

your full @$5$"#;¥@€~=

Nah, its getting close now - just need to tune the engine (mixture and timing) and headlamp adjust and its in for the MOT.

Its going on classic insurance with my other car, the two together will be half the insurance on the celica - besides, the parts for jap cars are far toooo expensive.

I think your just after the 205

No dd, your correct on one thing, the parts for that one are cheaper!
BUT! Ask yourself why my dear man!

Because Toyota are more reliable = Celica = less on parts!

Reason the parts are cheap is because there were so many cars produced, the engines (and minor variations) were also used in many other cars.

"5,278,050 Peugeot 205s have been sold, and a large percentage of them are still in circulation as of 2009"

way but the celica is better drive and drives better

Celica is better drive and feels better I meant!lol DAMN YOU EDIT ASS!

True. I'm enjoying myself, the 205 will be tootling about soon - I hope

Then the big project starts

As a very late update to this, the car has stayed virtually smoke free and has been tootling around very nicely. Easy 40+ mpg on long journeys and just under around town.

No advisories on MOT

Had more agro with the exhaust flex joint when I put proper spring fitting on but after a day of choice words, a large magnet, tie wraps compressing the springs etc, I got there.

Couldn't get classic insurance despite there only remaining 138 licensed and 25 sorn'd of this particular special edition model.

Never could talk you into buying that celica

I already had two cars and the Peugeot has proven to be a diamond.

I know there are a lot of pluses about many Japanese cars but they just aren't for me - too complicated and parts too expensive.

Even BMW's cost a lot in blood and toil if nothing else

Lol