SATURDAY 6TH JULY 2013- Join us for a March and Rally. 12 Noon Birkenhead Park Arch (corner of Conway Street).

The NHS is under attack from privatisation from the Tory Lib Dem Government!

The date is the Anniversary of the creation of the NHS.

6 PRINCIPLES TO SAVE THE NHS

Health care free at point of use
Health care provided on clinical need not ability to afford
Funded by fair taxation
Delivered by Public Service
Open transparent and democratic
Public health at the core of national health policy

Further info 0151 666 1999

i'll hopefull be there! dont work for the NHS, but if you follow "marcus Chown" on twitter, he regularly shows the way in which the NHS is being slowly and stealthly privatised - and its not being reoprted anywhere which is shocking!

Bazzoh, that is what I find the most shocking. Most of the population do not realise that it is happening- nothing in the so called paers, nothing reported on the u.k news channels. So so depressing

Hope to see you there.

There is a lot of money to be be made by privatisation (profits must be made before anything else) and if Marcus Chown is to be believed quite a few mp's and lords are not above lining their pockets from it. click

There was a massive conflict of interest, with 1/4 of the MPs and Lords who voted for the Bill having financial stakes in private health companies that stood to benefit by from the bill's passage http://tinyurl.com/7gcsaqf. “Care UK”, a private health company donated significant money to the office of health secretary Andrew Lansley.

I do believe that the gov are highlighting and publicising every little and large thing that goes wrong in the NHS (whilst cutting the amount of money available to it) in order to privatise it

The thing is do you want to be at the mercy of medical insurance companies (who like vehicle insurance co's can just hike the cost because you have to have it)

Privatization isnt new, its been there since Mrs T ,all parties then and since are into it not least because too many people at the top have vested interests in the private services offered to the NHS , and the reason its gone so far , is that ordinary people never believed or noticed it was happening. Mrs T made her amendments sound like advantages, not notches into privatization , and gradually over the years, its crept on so insidiously that its existence has been able to be denied by Govt and the masses believed them, and now the population has realized its a fact----its probably far too late, because to turn round the situation,(as public opinion would be ignored), it would need a complete sweep out of Government , and a new breed of ministers who are honest, uncorruptable , and who truly believe passionately in the original concept of the NHS. Dont think thats likely somehow , but who knows , so we have to try. Ill be there if I can.

Quote Derek
" I do believe that the gov are highlighting and publicising every little and large thing that goes wrong in the NHS (whilst cutting the amount of money available to it) in order to privatise it "

I believe thats absolutely spot on. Enforcing such massive 'efficiency ' cuts , making out they have the best interests of the NHS at heart, but knowing that in practical terms, the severity will cripple NHS for years. People will be served badly and complain , then the Govt can helpfully say ok,even with all our efficiency measures, this isnt working, we will bring in more private services to help make things better for you. Bingo - .
Governments. All the same, but varying skills in the art of disguise .

ronald bloody mcdonald house is all i've got to say...bloody charitable cause my backside!!!!!!!!!

How would a day of apathy affect all users of the N.H.S??

Quote Frank40

"This is just scaremongering, who has ever mentioned medical insurance?
Keep it real, some might beieve you and start to panic "

Frank, I can only imagine some parts of your posts ,like the above,just have to be tongue in cheek, yet thats not inkeeping with other parts, so Im not entirely sure what you actually believe!


Quote Helles

"Shouldn't you be at work at Conservative central office or something? "

Helles,can you point out the parts of my post that have lead you to this conclusion please, before I decide I must have been posting on this thread whilst asleep , hypnotized or hammered!

Time you got off your soapbox: it's been teachers, now the NHS, what next: the police, the forces? You can always find something if you look hard enough. The best thing you can do to help the situation is to do your job and pay your taxes. The Labour government will be no better than the present coalition and if recent history is anything to go by, will be worse.

The basic problem with the NHS is that we're all, thanks to constant development of new expensive drugs and techniques, living too long.
This affects not only the NHS but also the provision of the old age pension. The State now pays me over £700 every four weeks, I get the winter fuel allowance of £200 and free prescriptions for the various medicines designed to prolong my life. I'm inclined to think that, after over ten years of retirement, I have probably received more from the State than I paid in taxes during my working life and may continue to receive these benefits for yet more years to come.
At the other end of the scale, medical help and the work of charities, to which we are constantly being asked to contribute, is lessening the infant death rate world wide, but the habit in third world countries of having many children, in the expectation of high infant mortality, prevails. It's clear that what is needed is not "Save the Children" but education in contraception.
Anyway, now I'll get off my soapbox.

Well said, Chriskay!

Indeed - well said Chris! Your last paragraph hits the nail on the swede.... the world is getting overpopulated. We are running up the down escaltor in an endeavour to feed (sometimes overfeed) a world population and all that it desires. Energy shortages and water wars are just over the horizon (imho) to name just a couple of things.

Mother nature is maybe lurking in the wings with another Black Plague or somesuch to wipe out most of the population. The few "lucky" survivors can start the whole bloody thing off again - because we will never learn!

Vacates soapbox. Next contestant please !

Cant disagree with the last bit, but are you saying Chris that you are ok with privatization?

I'm not going to get involved with politics; there's too little difference between the parties now to make argument worthwhile:(this is another area in which we're following the trend set by the U.S.A.). the short answer is that, as a world, not just as a nation, we're breeding too fast and living too long; I heard on the news today that within ten years, 50% of us will be diagnosed with cancer, which is largely a disease of old age. The good news is that about 40% of those diagnosed will survive... ah, maybe that's not such good news after all. The best thing we can do about the situation is to get young people better educated and get the layabouts off their fat a*ses and into productive work, when they will pay tax rather than being a drain on society. I worked continuously for 49 years and am now enjoying the income which the State kindly provides. I am, these days, totally apolitical so I refuse to get into arguments about which party is best: I reckon that the present lot is doing the best it can with the resources it has.

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My point exactly Frank, the Government isnt going to state "We are going to privatize the health service more and more and more ,so that in the end you will be paying for everything you get,and if you dont get or cant afford insurance, thats tough because all you will get for free, is a minimal inferior service if you can queue long enough and if you're lucky enough to have a hospital near enough that accepts non private patients."

That wouldnt go down well , would it?

Would you be happy with my scenario Frank, or is it that you truly believe the Government have 'finished' privatization now ,and trust that they wont take it to the levels Ive mentioned?

The British Medical Association has passed a motion of no confidence in Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt.

Sky news.

Why do I think the Govt are going to take privatization further Frank?

Because , to quote you

"NHS has been privatised for many years now, that is why we pay for dental treatment, prescriptions etc. Even car parking to visit our family members in hospital has been privatised "

and they never said said all those things were being done in the name of privatization either, they were all just quietly slid in, as will the rest of their privatization plans , mostly probably wearing the guise of some other reason.
The very first tinkering by Mrs T, was the thin end of the wedge , and the wedge has driven deeper and deeper and deeper.

Birkenhead Medical Centre is now owned by Virgin, I believe.

The first hospital car parks that I remember bringing in charges, was back in 1990's in Ipswich.
The general public were guilty of using the free car park whilst doing their shopping ,then returning to have lunch or afternoon tea in the subsidised hospital cafeteria. Thus, the visitors to patients were unable to access either facility. So that makes sense. Always the few who spoil it for the many!

it is not scaremongering- it is true. The NHS IS being privatised.
I laughed out loud at 'all you can do is vote for your party of choice'. omg.
Talk about encouraging people to remain 'sheeples'!!

yes, there is apathy due to people not being aware of the facts, fear etc
-overturning the poll tax didnt happen overnight either.

I'm all in favour of saving the NHS but I think that the 42,000 Source staff members that didn't turn up for work today and every day need start caring first.

The nhs is a joke,the treatment from the medically qualified people is fantastic. I have been off work for 6 weeks now after an injury... Unpaid. If I was in the nhs I could remain off work for 6 months... FULL PAY! Can you see the problem?

Frank-Posting an 'up and coming event' hardly constitutes spending all my time egging people to join demos. lol.

what makes you assume i'm a Labour supporter?

Demos' in Hamilton Square and Arrowe? Never heard of them! Must have been poorly advertised, if i'd have known I would have posted an event.

As stated, it takes two minutes (even less to copy and paste) to set up a new post and its up to people whether they want to attend or not.

I cant believe some of the responses on here rudebox, the guy whining because he's self employed and didn't get paid for six weeks reeks of jealousy and the one telling us the country is run by the trade unions I wish, he must have been reading Enid Blyton.I am truly frightened for my family (all of whom work and have since they left school)if this government get another term in power it is truly the party of self interest.

Yup. Your source is the Daily Mail.

I didn't mention the Labour party Frankie, but at least we got some crumbs off the table from them, lets see what did we get off the cons, de regulation , privatisation,the best of british sold off to the lowest bidder and now sold back to us for obscene amounts of money,thatcher's government encouraged the unemployed to apply and receive disability benefit to massage the unemployment figures, but of course now they don't care because they hide behind the recession and of course blame it all on the previous government they must also be responsible for all the other countries both inside and out of the EEC including the USA who are in recession,but hey lets face it there are enough thieves and rogues from all parties in parliament and that my friend is were the problem lies

What you have to remember with the NHS is that the bulk of the workforce are frontline staff like nurses, and there are NHS policies in force which for obvious reasons, preclude them from going into work with many of the ailments that we would drag ourselves into work with . Rightly so but it skews figures that the good ole DM like to pick up on.

Regarding the 6mths pay you mention. The NHS in the early days of setting up, was 'a good employer' . Nothing wrong with that .Its a vital service , highly very specifically trained staff in the main , that you want to look after, retain, and then get back to work asap for all our sakes. The 6mths rule is available to management in pursuit of that.

Why get rid of it?Its been negotiated properly for all the right reasons , since whenever.Its there for employees to be treated fairly, when genuinely sick.
Management doesnt however have to sit back and watch endless people skiving or failing to do their job , its within HR's power , (and its what they should be doing) to monitor sickness and productivity levels , warn and reprimand when it turns out to be inefficiency or melingering, and follow the correct course to sacking if it continues.

The private sector has never been prone to carrying dead wood in the form of genuine but unproductive on/off sick employees. The NHS has always been a bit soft that way, so in genuine cases of continual illness , they may ,just because the 6mths are available , keep that person employed far longer than they need to instead of going through available procedures to get the person evaluated professionally .If it is assessed that the person is so repeatedly sick they are not cost effective for the NHS to continue to employ, they they should be and can be got rid of. Maybe HR arent doing this.

So, maybe since decentralization and reorganizations, NHS HR Departments whether through lack of skill or lack of will, just are'nt using the tools available to keep a good sick pay system free from abuse?
So, we dont need to get rid of the system, we need the system managed properly , so that it works the way its supposed to.

Sadly though, where the unions are powerful as in Wirral, I suspect that if HR did try harder to use procedures at their disposal to get the 6mth system operating properly , the first time someone got sacked for taking too many days off unjustifiably, there would be screams of anguish from Unite or whoever, and the trust would end up having to pay stacks of money for bank and agency staff during the outcry to have the sacked person reinstated!!

If you believe what you have written Frank then it is you who has been brainwashed, no it was definitely Thatcher,so we reduce jobs in the public sector were are people going to be employed? the private sector? factories and businesses going broke by the day, armed forces cut to the bone, manufacturing industries sold off, so then they end up unemployed on benefits they lose their homes they cant contribute to the national purse, of course the Tories could bring back the workhouses scrap the NHS and those that cant pay can die in the streets that's the vision for the future they have back to the days of the blocker and tipping your forelock, they have no understanding and no compassion their ethos is money and privilege.

Frank, dont know what youre doing wrong, but you keep posting quotes that dont belong to the right people. Very confusing.

I have just read your last post Frank about unions running the country, we have an unelected government running this country at the moment running it by default, how does that fit in with your view of democracy? How is it that every time the Tories have power they have to use the police or army to control the populace? its starting to remind me of Germany in the 30's

Oh no - the last thing you want in the U.K. is for health care to be run efficiently (which it would have to be, by private firms, or they would go straight out of business).

Wow, I came up with that all by myself, and I don't even read the Daily Mail!

It would have to be by private firms, not so I have worked for ex council privatised firms every one had the contract taken off them for poor performance cutting corners to enhance their profitability they pay poor wages and use inferior equipment and lie about their performance.

Privatisation & nationalisation

Last updated: Sunday 23 September, 2012

Government Intervention - The Private Finance Initiative (PFI)

The PFI was first launched in 1992 by a Conservative government and was extended heavily by the Labour government of 1997-2010. At the end of 2011, more than 700 hospitals, schools, prisons and other public sector projects had been built under the PFI scheme.
It encourages groups of private investors manage the design, build, finance and operation of public infrastructure such as new schools, hospitals, social housing, defence contracts, prisons and road improvements. Typically a PFI contract is repaid by the government over a 30 year period.

Efficiency: Belief that the private sector is better at managing investment projects and achieving overall cost efficiencies

Debt costs: Since 2007 the cost of private sector finance has increased - financing costs of PFI are typically 3-4% over that of government debt. Some estimates find that paying off a £1bn debt incurred through PFI cost the UK taxpayer equivalent to a direct government debt of £1.7bn

Administration: High spending on advisors and lawyers and the costs of the bidding process. The Royal Institute of British Architects estimated that the cost of bidding for a PFI hospital was more than £11 million


Northern Rock - In the autumn of 2007 the government announced the nationalisation of Northern Rock - With nationalisation, the debts of the bank were taken onto the public sector finances. These loans and guarantees were estimated to be worth more than £50bn. In the months since the nationalisation, Northern Rock has been downsizing its activities, reducing the size of its mortgage loans book and making several thousand employees redundant.

Bradford and Bingley - In September 2008 the UK government nationalised Bradford and Bingley - it took control of the bank's £50bn mortgages and loans, while B&B's £20bn savings unit and branches was bought by Spain's Santander.

The media is rife with examples of some of the wasteful spending built into the public sector procurement agreements that are part of PFI projects – for example the Prison Service renting computersfor £120 per month, anger at rising car parking charges at many local hospitals, road and bridge projects over-budget (the M25 widening scheme cost £1 billion more than forecast. Another well known example is the kennels at the Defence Animal Centre in Melton Mowbray, which cost more per night than rooms at the London Hilton.

........................................................................


Just a few pointers and I also remember the kick off about the introduction of Acadamies in 2000, of which have since taken off. To my mind, it's all too vast for us to even to be able to contemplate, unless we really know what we are talking about. That I feel applies to very few of us and it would appear that whatever we are led to believe, all Governments at the end of the day,are singing from the same hymn sheet as it's the way forward, if we stick with Europe. Europe too, have the same as we do....so we follow in the same footsteps as dictated by other powers that be. FRance, Spain, Italy, etc. are all effected by the same problems and political issues. Exactly the same!! Which tells us, that we are contolled by Europe, whether we like it or not. Unions might as well give up, they don't carry any weight anymore.

Nice one Granny, but Frank wont agree with you!

UKIP????!!!! God help us.

I have no problem with sensible monetary control, but I do have a problem with the lower end of society bearing the brunt of the cuts, the Tories wont control the greed of their backers, much wants more, they are out and out thieves they are using the recession to do what they have longed to do for years dismantle the welfare state and are actually bragging about the lack of resistance, look in the history books about your wonderful Tories a good third of them wanted to do a deal with the Nazi's so long as they kept their wealth and lands they were rotten then and they are rotten now.

Quote `19FRANK40

"The NHS is under attack from privatisation from the Tory Lib Dem Government!"

IS SIMPLY UNTRUE."

OMG! FRANK!! Ive just realized you actually genuinely believe what you're saying !!!!!!!!!

Frank certainly does believe everything he says, its heart warming knowing his posts do more damage to the Tory party than any Trade Unionist or Labour party member could ever achieve.

To Quote Frank
" Anyway, if we elect a government, it is not up to its opponents to protest, that is what we call democracy".

Very similar to another period of time,
Frank, wear your Iron Cross with pride.

Frank,
I will not withdraw anything, I and many others have taken offence at everything you've posted. I wouldn't expect you to withdraw any of it, in fact I think you are damaging the Tory party excellently and if people think you are typical of it, great, keep it up.

Frank,
you seem to be obsessed with the agreement made between the Trade Unions and the Labour party on how they conduct their business, I suspect you're not a member of either, if that's the case, perhaps you should join one or the other and protest from within.
That would be more Democratic than protesting from the outside, you want to change the rules of something your probably not a member of.

Protesting is a very important part of Democracy, whoever is in government, providing its done peacefully it should be encouraged, it just might keep us away from Dictatorship.

Hey frank take a close look at your statements,I am no traitor I have served my country and I like many others expect my country to serve me in return, I look for nothing for nothing but I do expect to be treated with decency and respect what we have here is a bunch of mealy mouthed losers who owe their way of life to their inheritance which was stolen or taken by force from our ancestors, overgrown schoolboys who have never done a days graft,everything has been handed to them wealth education and position what have they done for this country? and some of them have still got to lie cheat and steal to get by,as to traitors and despots Thatcher would have known about that when she gave shelter to Pinnochet birds of a feather.

I actually thought that Frank was a returning banned member but then I realised that the ramblings are not very intelligent, wheras the banned member was at least intelligent.

There is one who has shown his disapproval from within the Labour Party and he is the multi-millionaire,Lord Sainsbury, who bank rolled the Labour Party.


Miliband branded “average” by Lord Sainsbury

“The multimillionaire businessman and philanthropist who has given more than £12 million to the Labour Party has branded Ed Miliband an “average” politician, with an uninspiring political vision. In a rare interview, Lord Sainsbury of Turville, who bankrolled Labour through the Blair and Brown years, told The Times that he had no intention of donating to the party again.” - The Times(£)

My belief is that all but one, of the leaders of political parties in recent years are far too wet behind the ears when they come to the front,they don't even understand the basic meaning of 'hunger'. All of them.... but the trade unions have done nothing and do nothing until it suits them to gain notariety, plus the fact that most of the unions are infiltrated by 'militant tendencies' and that's their pitfall. The people who remember,do NOT want a repeat of 1970's/80's .It achieved nothing, and for those who can't remember, in my opinion, should shut up!

What you mean frank is that if it doesn't affect you personally then its okay,go with the flow typical Tory ethos look after yourself trample over those that fall then blame it on somebody else.You actually parrot your hero's words as in "demand every thing you have not earned", I would hazard a guess that you owned or own a business or are/were self employed and believe that the world owes you a living because you are a striver (allegedly),glad I'am not in a lifeboat with you.

It's no use locking the stable door after the horse has bolted.
If no-one protested and waited until the next election the party that was in power could get away with all sorts of things that the average man in the street wouldn't accept as fair to all
the people in the UK.
If you looked up the membership of the parties you'll see that they are only a fraction of the populace and that your representatives to stand for election are chosen by a small number at the top in them.
As far as I'm concerned most politicians, trade union leaders and big private enterprise are only in it for what they can get out of it (be it power or wealth)

Casper, I think you are wrong to have that point of view. Many a person has come from difficult backgrounds, and poverty to make themselves and others a better life. If in the process they change their political persuassions, that is their choice. You surely cannot decry and punish anyone who has achieved in such a manner. That takes inspiration away from someitmes those who have more vision, than others who have a more lucrative upbringing.

I was there granny,you will never see a return to the 70's and 80's because there is no will for people to stand up for themselves,the tory anti trade union legislation made sure of that,and of course they are not afraid to use the police or army to reinforce it, the miners strike has been well researched and documented and all agree that the police had been given carte blanche to smash the strike at any cost, trumped up charges illegal stop and search the list is endless if a government of any party are prepared to go to those lengths then be afraid for the alleged freedom and democracy we believe we have.

The trouble was that it wasn't just the miners. NHS, Teachers, Transport, , Council Workers,inc. Refuse collections, Grave Diggers. the list was endless.
What if the Banks had gone on strike too.???
I don't believe the many want unrest anymore Casper. Life is too serious without that intervention , these days. People can protest in anyway if they wish, that has not been taken away from them. There was a big enough turn out against the imminent war in Iraq, but nobody of importance heard, did they?

Think I'm going to start a protest group for Grannies. There's a lot of power behind us!

I was just using the miners strike as an example of how far the government of the day went to smash the trade unions, I have been on the end of a police baton for no other reason than standing at a demonstration something which you say we are allowed to do, we were actually stood behind railings and the police faced us all the while stabbing through the railings with their batons uncalled for and needless, I think we all need to stand up for what we believe in wether it be library closures, ban the bomb or the NHS for the sake of our grandchildren.

I don't think some people on this forum grasp the level of debt we owe to Trade Unions, or should I say, a Union of people, the mention of Trade has a red mist descending and immediately the old propaganda kicks in, they forget the unions are made up of the very people of this country who they live and mix with every day.
All they see is past confrontations and bring that to the fore, regardless to whom was at fault. They can't accept that members of a union have the right to protest in any way they think fit, if its withdrawal of Labour, its done democratically, or do some think the people of this country who are members of a union are so thick, they allow themselves to be dictated to. I've always found it strange that when a trade union protests in whatever manner they think fit, some opponents are up in arms and yet they find it completely acceptable for a business to move abroad,sacking all, throw people on the scrapeheap or reduce their pay, change their working conditions and nothing is said, not only that but they beleive no protest should be allowed or made.

Well, the 'baton brigade' need to be controlled by their leaders, and your example is the very reason why unrest should not be encouraged. It's all very well for people to call for action from the members of whatever group, but they are not the ones standing at the front. It's like a game of chess, exactly the same as the political parties. Pawns to the front and Leaders at the back, shouting the score. I do understand what you say Casper and yes we shoudn't be lying back, but until a situation arises that is of mammoth proportions, and effects the majority, then I don't believe many will respond to the calls. Teachers strike last week... how many teachers went out to support the rally? Probably had a nice day relaxing in the hope that others would do it for them.
My daughter stayed up, had a few drinks and relished the fact she didn't have to get up in the morning.Basically...not interested.

We can't very well strike about businesses moving abroad Bert! What I will say, is that WMBC were guilty of virtually same things you list.There was plenty said and Union was brought in.Hey Presto! they ran away again and did f. all, for those that needed them, because they were in cahoots with a labour council.They back each other up, everytime and they should be independant.

Never said Granny "we should go on strike when businesses move abroad" read again.

Look at the history and overall picture of what Trade Unionism has achieved for the people of this country and try not to pick out sections that suit your obvious dislike and bias.

Anyway, onward and upward with your Granny protesters.

Granny we already have a situation of mammoth proportions food banks a crumbling health service old people dying of the cold we had more old people die of hypothermia in one year than armed forces casualties in the whole of the Afghanistan conflict and this from one of the richest countries in the world,as to your daughter the only way she will learn is when her indifference costs her job but its to late then,I have heard it all before about trade unions but those that bleat the loudest about them don't mind accepting the benefits that are won for them at the cost from others.

Forked toungue Bert...

The obvious dislike and bias is fact. So there's none so clear as fact, is there Bert? Neither was there one isolated case.
We know what the Trade Unions have achieved in this country and we know what the Trade Unions have failed in too.

The Gregarious Grands.... you too can join Bert, there are simple rules, and a couple of openings for male members.How could Grannies alone, possibly manage to think for themselves?

Yes Casper, and do you know what annoys me about those facts (not you) Who do people think is providing for the foodbanks?The church congregations e.g. pensioners provide a huge amount .Go to any church on Wirral and there's a box to throw your donations in. Who uses their petrol money to go to visit the sick and the vulnerble pensioners, yes, the other pensioners.Who commits an amount of money every month through the church to help Christian charities, yes the pensioners.The reason I say 'pensioners' in all of this is because a large proportion of congregation is made up of pensioners. They don't complain, everyone else uses them as a voice for their own cause. Shame on them.

Well said granny its about the old community spirit, because the older generation know what it is to go without that why they put themselves out,it warms the heart to see people stopping to help in situations or being courteous when driving instead of the distorted faces and the two fingers or the fist but that's a sign of the me me me society.

Thank you Casper on behalf of all those who do put themselves into the community, for the benefit of the community. What's more, they get great pleasure from it all.

Sorry state of affairs don't you think Granny in 21 century Britain, Foodbanks, Save the Children asking for donations for children in this country and not where you would expect, some far flung war torn backward country on another continent. A couple reasons unions were formed in the first place.

They haven't managed to do so much then, have they?

Another thing, how many teachers, nurses, doctors, afford to go abroad for their holidays, to far flung backward countries and pop a penny in the laps of the beggars, for appearances sake?

Ah yes! ..and what do they take with them? IPad, IPhone, medical insurance, incase they're sick, travel insurance in case they loose their personal possesions of great importance but they'd call the local policeman if someone dare to try and pinch their cigarette lighter.

Granny,

What is the problem with Nurses, Doctors and teachers going abroad on holiday? What's the problem with them having Ipads, phone or anything else?

Confused and lost me.

No Bert, you are loosing the plot!

The teachers and NHS are taking industrial action because of PAY, CONDITIONS and PENSIONS.
They have enough pay to go on holiay to far flung countires, they have good conditions and holidays to match, they have pensions, which once they retire and take them, they are then eliglble to go back in the same positions as supply teaching etc.
So the point is........they have enough to have a rather good life, wouldn't you say, in comparison , to your quote of conditions in this country being like a far flung war torn country. They are the ones taking strike action, not the children or the pensioners, or the unemployed, or the sick.
The ones taking strike action are the very ones who have it good.
That is fairly simple. and if you can't see that, then 'Off with your head'

Oh I see your point Granny, everyone in this country from the lowest recipient of benefits to the highest paid tycoon should only receive enough to live on, for the basics, enough to sustain life and no more. It might work if everyone was included and not just some.

Read again Bert, you obviously don't see my point because you do not wish to. Your interpretaion is twisting my words to suit your own agenda. You are the one who compared the situation in this country to a far off war torn country. Which to my mind is quite appalling. Maybe you should pay a visit to some of those countries yourself and take stock of your words. I somehow don't think they would be able to agree with you. While your there have a few hundred quid, ready to give to the beggars with no limbs.

So, it is 'Off With Your Head'

Read again Granny

Sorry state of affairs don't you think Granny in 21 century Britain, Foodbanks, Save the Children asking for donations for children in this country and not where you would expect, some far flung war torn backward country on another continent. A couple reasons unions were formed in the first place.

I never compared the children of this country to those poor souls in places abroad, the point was, you wouldn't expect for an organisation like Save the Children to feel they had to ask for donations for children here.
But you see that's alright because the government of the day have created, so they say, many jobs in the private sector and the price we have to pay is children suffering and people going hungry.

O.K. Bert, I'm quite sure you wouldn't intend to, but that's how it came across.
I'm off now. Had enough but I'm sure we'll meet again and please don't think you have won the cause, because you aint.