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Posted By: gemgem87 Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 9:56am
Hiya all, just wondering if anyone who is up on employment law can have a look at my current situation and let me know if what my employer is trying to do is legal.
Basically, I worked full time (six days a week) for just under two years, before I went down to four days a week in August last year. This was agreed with them, and they were fully aware about three months prior that I would be reducing my hours and at the time I told them if this would be an issue then I could look for work elsewhere. They told me that this was fine, and as long as I did a minimum of three days they would be happy.
All was fine up until just before Christmas, when they started to offer me wage increases/bonuses to go back to six days a week. I politely declined the offer, and since then it seems like their attitude towards me has done a complete 180.
My boss told me in January that he was going to hand me my month's notice, but changed his mind in the hope that "I'll change mine at some point and go back to full time". When I asked what reason they would give to dismiss me, he said that they rely on me to be there six days a week, and it's inconvienient to them for me not to be (which is nonsense, there are seven us in my department, all equally able to do the same job I do).
More recently I took two days off ill with a stomach bug, and having seen the doctor I could only get a self cert sick note as I wasn't off for more than five working days. My work have now told me that this is unacceptable, and have advised that if I won't provide a full doctor's note this is grounds to fire me. I was off ill also with a chest infection in December for a week, but this was covered by a doctor's note and prior to that I hadn't had any absences in a long while, so they couldn't really argue my attendance is an issue.
I don't believe they can do this, and to be honest I think they're just looking for a way to get rid. I'm just wondering though whether they would have a leg to stand on, whether this would class as unfair dismissal but also is this classed as discrimination as I work less hours than others in my department? As others in my department have recently had time off ill and I know for a fact that they have not been asked to produce a full doctor's note as I have.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, so thanks in advance!
Posted By: MattLFC Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:01am
Go and see the CAB. They have employment specialists available. That's my advice.
Posted By: gemgem87 Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:08am
Have tried Matt, but getting an appointment with them is like finding rocking horse shit at the mo and am continually told to come back in a day or so to see if anyone is free even, if I turn up bang on opening time. And if you call them you're only told to go down there mad
Posted By: MattLFC Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:10am
Which branch did you go to may I ask?
Posted By: Sanchez Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:11am
Is there no way you can go back to 6days?
Posted By: gemgem87 Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:11am
Birkenhead, Argyle Street
Posted By: gemgem87 Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:13am
No Sanchez, not until May at the very earliest. If I could I would just do that as the atmosphere in there is quite frankly unbearable at times
Posted By: MattLFC Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:14am
Try Wallasey, Birkenhead are always overrun with appointments, they've usually got the doors shut within 30 minutes of opening due to too many clients waiting, and they are usually short of advisers. The Wallasey branch is more active and has more advisers (it's the HQ) as well as more appointment slots. You usually end up getting referred there anyway.

Their employment specialists can't see you without an initial assessment by a general adviser first iirc.
Posted By: Sanchez Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:17am
Just keep your whits about you and be alert, sounds like you could be right.
Posted By: Ronny Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:19am
Phone ACAS ACAS Call the Helpline on 08457 47 47 47.
Monday-Friday, 8am-8pm and Saturday, 9am-1pm

THEY OFFER FREE ADVICE!

Posted By: jaki1 Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:19am
this is classed as constructive dismissal. they are trying to force you out if you dont abide by their rules. I had this problem 6 years ago. Go to the CAB on argyle street in birkenhead.they have specialised people there for this sort of thing. I won my case and got £2000.Happy days.


goodluck and let us know how you get on.
Posted By: MattLFC Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:20am
Also, post your query on MSE in the Employment Forum - don't listen to everything that is spouted on there of course, but there are some very knowledgeable chaps, including CAB workers and solicitors, who may be able to help you.

Btw, do you have an "upgraded" current account at all? It may have a legal assistance service, also, check if your home insurance and/or motor insurance has a legal assistance service. My Barclays account has it (and my insurer offered the same thing but it was extra cost) and I tried it last year, at 3am, and a solicitor/paralegal rang me back within the hour to discuss the matter with me.
Posted By: gemgem87 Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:20am
Ok, thanks for that Matt, I'll try them instead
Posted By: julie253 Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:23am
When you reduced your hours did your Contract of Employment change to reflect this? or do you have anything in writing that you changed your hours and they were happy with it? there should be something on your employment record.
ACAS are very helpful andn the number is on the post before mine. If you feel you are being victimised maybe you should start to keep a record of incidents. Good luck.
Posted By: Nigel Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:25am
A good place to look for advice on all sorts of issues including employment is www.direct.gov.uk I use it all the time.
Posted By: gemgem87 Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:25am
Thanks for the advice all, I think my first stop will be to head to the Wallasey CAB. As mentioned above, haven't had much joy with Birkenhead CAB tbh!
I have spoken to ACAS, who advised me to keep a record of everything I feel is out of order, but they advised that before I could take this any further I would need to collate the information to raise a grievance provedure with my employer - seeing as how the issue I have is with my actual boss I would feel pretty uncomfortable doing that!
I do have an account with my bank which I pay for each month, not sure if it has that service though, will have to check it out
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:29am
Ok, a lot of this depends on your contract with them. What does your contract say? 6 days a week? or have you got a fresh contract stating that until May you are only available to work fewer days a week.

However, also on the other hand, you have been there 2 years. As long as your not on a probationary period still (which after two years I wouldnt of thought so) after 12 months of employment, you have full employees rights (which means they cannot JUST fire you). this means it would have to be very horrendous for them to do this (i.e. gross misconduct).

What does your contract say about how much sick leave your allowed to take before you get disciplined for it? For example mine is 3 times in every given year (this would be without a doctors note). However the first one can be ruled out as you had a doctors note (they are not able to say anything regarding this). The second one is questionable, however with a self cert and 1 'unexplained' (by the doctor) absence - this is not just cause to fire you.

It sounds and though you are getting picked on, but stand your ground - and I would advise that in future you get it in writing that they are allowing you to work part-time until such a time that you can return to full-time hours.

However they cannot sack you on this term alone, and they cannot use your sick leave either (as there is too few). If I was you, yes go to the CAB but write a diary of everything that is said and happens in a day with regards to the 'threat' to your job...it will come in handy if you do have to go for unfair dismissal.

I hope I have helped.

(all this information has come from a person in a managerial position)

Posted By: gemgem87 Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:30am
Originally Posted by julie253
When you reduced your hours did your Contract of Employment change to reflect this? or do you have anything in writing that you changed your hours and they were happy with it? there should be something on your employment record.
ACAS are very helpful andn the number is on the post before mine. If you feel you are being victimised maybe you should start to keep a record of incidents. Good luck.


When I reduced my hours my contract stated 40 hours minimum, but this was only given to me a couple of week before I reduced them (we hadn't had a contract whatsoever up to that point). I asked at the time that this be changed to reflect this and was assured it would be changed at a later date, which I still don't think it has been.
However, from what I've read online because I've worked these reduced hours for over 3 months this becomes a verbal contract anyway and shows they have been willing to let me do this, thus negating what was previously agreed? Not sure how correct that is
Posted By: gemgem87 Re: Advice Needed - Employment Issue - 1st Mar 2012 10:37am
Originally Posted by Spritey_Nikki
Ok, a lot of this depends on your contract with them. What does your contract say? 6 days a week? or have you got a fresh contract stating that until May you are only available to work fewer days a week.

However, also on the other hand, you have been there 2 years. As long as your not on a probationary period still (which after two years I wouldnt of thought so) after 12 months of employment, you have full employees rights (which means they cannot JUST fire you). this means it would have to be very horrendous for them to do this (i.e. gross misconduct).

What does your contract say about how much sick leave your allowed to take before you get disciplined for it? For example mine is 3 times in every given year (this would be without a doctors note). However the first one can be ruled out as you had a doctors note (they are not able to say anything regarding this). The second one is questionable, however with a self cert and 1 'unexplained' (by the doctor) absence - this is not just cause to fire you.

It sounds and though you are getting picked on, but stand your ground - and I would advise that in future you get it in writing that they are allowing you to work part-time until such a time that you can return to full-time hours.

However they cannot sack you on this term alone, and they cannot use your sick leave either (as there is too few). If I was you, yes go to the CAB but write a diary of everything that is said and happens in a day with regards to the 'threat' to your job...it will come in handy if you do have to go for unfair dismissal.

I hope I have helped.

(all this information has come from a person in a managerial position)



My contract does state 40 hours, but as mentioned above I'm not sure if it applies anymore as they have willingly let me work 30 odd hours a week since August, i.e. more than three months and so equating to a verbal contract? Not sure how accurate that is as I did read it online.
But there is nothing in my contract about entitlement to sick leave at all apart from if I don't notify them within the first fifteen mintes of my shift that I won't be in I'm subject to disciplinary action (which I did do).
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