Right, my brother has had a letter informing him that he has been caught going through a Red Light at 35mph.

As he has not sent back the form yet, it doesn't say what the actual penalty is.

Does anyone know the likely outcome?

the likely outcome is,i can only imagine, at least 3 points and a fine for the speeding,at least 3 points and a fine for the red light,and if he's unlucky,dangerous driving charge aswell. how long has he been driving? very silly of him to run a red,especially at speed

He's been driving 18months, but is a regional manager for quite a big company, so the possibility of a ban is slight as he relies on driving for work.

The offence itself was from June 06..but because its a company car its taken this long to get to him. It was 35mph in a 30 zone, and he says he doesn't remember it but wouldnt jump a blatent red light, so was probably amber going through red but he won't find out the other details until they return the form.

A dual offence is often taken as 5 points aparantly. I.E. Undertaking at speed is 5 points, as it is classed as dual offence, so its not very clear

AFAIK the offence will either be running a red light or speeding

Ive never seen the speed camera time lines running accross a trafic light junction.

I think he needs to get more info first and clarify what the actualy offence is, maybe the offence code?

Either way, for either offence, I belive its a £60 fine and 3 points.

Iirc, if he is in the first 2 years of driving and gets 6 points, its an automatic license revoke, not an issue for the courts to decide.

So the likelyhood of him being able to argue that he needs the license for work is unlikely to make a difference.

I think it will most probably be 3 points and a fine though.

Yeh, I assume 3 points and a fine too but he will have to wait and see what he gets back.

Although its an automatic liscence revoke after 6 points, if they are in one offense and that offense is contested, the court can make a decision depending on mitigating circumstances.
A girl I know got 3 points, then contested the next 3 and was allowed it on the ground that a lisence revoke would have affected livelihood.

Will let you know what the outcome is.

thats a very good point,they can't PROVE he was speeding so he can only get done for running the red. i'd speak to a solicitor but im pretty sure they CANT do him for speeding

Can you rememeber about 18months ago
where there was the New Chief of Police in Midlesbrough,
he was the one that brought in the "ZERO TOLLERANCE"

Well his car got a simular ticket which turned up
6months later or so.

But the point was they couldnt procercute as no
one could remember who was driving.

So he got off with it, i'm sure i posted somthing
about it but cant find it.

I think your brother needs to establish

Who was driving the car First - Then worry about his licence.

Hope that helps ?

are there cameras on traffic lights so if u jump one you can get caught?? or are they the ones that just look like speed cameras?

I;m not sure, I mean, the whole issue is a bit murkey, and he is going to speak to the lawyers who represent his company I think.

But the fact it was 6 months ago, and is a company car that could have been used by anyone that works for him means it wont be crystal clear!

It doesn't actuaally state in this first letter he has how he got caught, so i suspect maybe he was spotted by police who didnt pull him over because it would mean them jumping them too...

Its all very hard to decifer. I mean, he drives a new a3 and is quite a repsectful driver, and swears that it must have been amber just hitting red, as he isnt a scally in a chavalier that might plow through a blatent red!

I Guess we'll have to see how it pans out!

Keep us updated as the picture becomes clearer

Im afraid a red light camera does not flash you if you go through the light on amber, it gets you a second or so after the red light has become active.

So no matter what he says, me "must" have jumped a red light, not been looking at the lights or been going far too fast to stop for it.

The innocence story doesnt wash with me im afraid. He may be a careful driver and it probably was a genuine mistake, but it certainly was him in the wrong if he has been caught jumping a red light.

Just so you know, the police are supposed to get in contact with a "notice of intended prosecution" within 14 days of a traffic offence. I know this is true for SP30's (breaking the speed limit), but not entirely sure about other traffic offences. If it arrives outside this time it must come with an explanation. If it goes to court this could be worth bringing up?

It seems they did explain to him that the delay was because it was a company car Jimbo.

Persue these issues :

1. 14 Days (Notice of prosection)

2. Loss of livleyhood (keeps his licence even with 6 points)

3. Obtain a copy of the evidence (If picture was taken of the rear of the car he could sell the points if his job is that important) Say someone else was driving.

4. Deny he was driving that company car on that day (Company is legally obliged to keep records of who drives what car and when)

You can research these issues easily via google.

the company (registered vehicle keeper) prolly got the letter within the time limit but then had to find out who was driving. did ur brother sign for taking the vehicle the day he used it (is there some sort of signing out procedure he must do?)

Thanks for all the helpful comments guys.

Matty C - Yeh I know what you mean, genuine mistake but still guilty; what I was trying to say was that. genuine mistake, not being purposely careless etc.

There is no signing out procedure for the car, it is his own personal company car, but as he is the boss and poeople who work in his offices don't have personal ones, he can lend it to whoever needs to run an errand etc, and they jsut take the keys. Again though, its unclear what the official stance is.

Also, although the company who own the vehicle probably got the letter within 14 days, its a bit excessive if its taken from July-now to get to him, so I'm sure he has a case to argue about it being so long ago.

I suppose this issue is just another case of how unclear the rules can be on speeding tickets / loopholes etc. If its just 3 points and a fine, he is obv willing to take it, as he knows he must have been in the wrong, its just another frustrating example of how easily people who try and stick to the law can be penalised heavily, where as uninsured drivers, scallies, people with false plates etc don't seem to give a toss and seem to get away with everything!

2 things come to mind :

1. If staff simply borrow the vehicle then there should be a signing in/out procedure for the drivers. The vehicle is his responsability and so is the offence, unless he can prove another member of staff was driving.

2. Whoever recieved the offence letter in the post within the 14 days needs shooting if it has taken this long to appear.

Finally, if the car is his own company car then it should be registered in his name, this way he would recieve the notice of prosection personaly.

They just look like normal cam but cant record speed as far as i know and are just there to catch people going through red lights.

Well, the outcome was 3 points and £60 fine.

If you get caught doing two offences, i.e speeding through a red, it has to be 2 seperate cameras for double the points. If one camera - one offence and points and fine.

i got caught going through a red light in birkenhead i got offered the choice of doing a drivers awerness course or taken the 3 points so i went the course

Did he plead Guilty or was it argued in court?

He rang the police to ask what the penalty would be, and they said it would more than likely be 3 points and a fine or a driver awareness course, so he just pleaded guilty and took the 3 points on the nose. They didn't offer the driver awareness course but I've heard they are offering them a lot and are really good!

ive had a driver improvement course, got offered that instead of "driving with undue care and attention" from my last crash. Costs about 120 pound but doesnt go on ur record so doesnt affect ur insurance,and also,it did make me a better driver,for a week, saved me loads of petrol and unnecesary braking etc (its all about anticipation and keeping the momentum,smooth driving)

I still protest tho that i wasnt driving with undue care and attention,and that s why,from now on,if ever im involved in an accident that is "my fault" i will not speak to the police

Gotta love that bit, speeding & through a red light, but because he drives a new a3 he`s not a dangerous driver lol.
I do know what your saying mate but had i been crossing the junction the other way & he`d hit me side on then i doubt id look at the badge on his car & see it that way.
Lucky let off though.

Yeh see what your saying mate, wasn't meant as if..he drives an audi therefore is king of the road and should be let off, I just meant that he has respect for his car etc and wouldnt put himself, anyone else, or the car at risk purposely, and was more one of those spare of the moment "shit ill make it through" things than "ah fck this i'll jus bomb thro" lol, but yeh, serves as an act of caution for definate,.