Although I agree its wrong and a really bad idea to encourage Islamophobia , we would be a damn side more scared if we DIDNT have armed police on the streets, DIDNT have stringent border checks (possibly biased against anyone with voluminous clothing , DIDNT have access to know what is going on in mosques or schools (look how when left without scrutiny, we suddenly find kids are being radicalized in some Muslim schools, and last night on TV we saw how effectively Muslim private/secret mum and baby groups were being used to radicalize women and children) and yes we are a lot more scared when we DONT hear ordinary 'proper ' Muslims speaking out against jihadi atrocities.
Im not aware of people asking influencial Muslims for apologies for the behaviour of Jihadis , they were only asking them for support and reassurance that 'real' Muslims felt the same as we do about the violence, and it wasnt initially forthcoming , which obviously worries people as it wasnt a lot to ask. The pope did actually apologize for paedophile priests , although personally I think he only needed to reassure people that the majority were not like that, and that yes he and all good Catholics condemned it.
As for Quote "Yes we need to fight ISIS, we need to neutralise them - save the thousands of innocent lives who are being killed in the masses. However, we don't do that by turning our own societies into the oppressive regimes which we have historically fought so hard against"
Well when you're fighting something as dangerous as ISIS that you know has infiltrated your country ,and you dont know who they are, then until you have freed your country from the risk, then yes you may well temporarily have to accept some oppressive rules and regulations whether fair or not !
Imagine if people in WW2 had said they werent going to give up freedom of movement,show passes, and werent going to submit to blocking light out of their windows, and werent going to eye with suspicion , people whom through clothing , accent or manner might be a spy .
People who think you can overcome a situation like this without infringing some human rights, without being un-pc sometimes, and without being unfair in some instances, arent being realistic in my view.
I agree we wouldnt be in this mess if we and America hadnt meddled in these countries in the first place ,(and I dont want Cameron getting us in deeper now by piling troops into Syria) but we are where we are, we cant say like the taxi driver giving directions to a stranger " I wouldnt start from here if I was you"
First apologies to rudebox the picture misled me sorry rudebox, thanks for putting me right bandicoot, secondly a good post well put from Venice, a good comparison re WW2 indeed civil liberties were curtailed for the good of the country when we were really all in it together, because the Luftwaffe was indiscriminate with its bombing, men women children anything that moved, the same as the Isis vermin now, indiscriminate regardless of gender, religion, colour or creed that's why we must ALL condemn their actions.
First apologies to rudebox the picture misled me sorry rudebox,
No worries Casper
Originally Posted by casper
Rude you say they shouldn't have to comment, why? every other community from different parts of the world have spoken out, to coin a phrase "their silence is deafening"
Zakia Rashid 18 November at 09:15 · Edited · In response to the multitude comments made about Muslims over the past week. So many people ask "why don't the Muslims in this country speak out if they're against it?" We have tried and tried with rally's, protests press releases aplenty. Why have you not seen it? The media feel it's not as press worthy as terror and stokes no fires! Today the Muslim Council of Great Britain took out a full page ad in the Telegraph. We can shout loud but the ears of Britain need to be open to hear. Can you hear me?
I would be grateful if you would share and spread this message. Thank you.
A Statement of Solidarity from British Muslim communities 14 November 2015
We are profoundly saddened by the loss of innocent lives in Paris, and our deepest condolences are with the family and friends of the victims, and the French nation.
Britons of all backgrounds, of every faith, every denomination, and none, are horrified by what we have learned, and are determined that those who seek to divide our diverse and peaceful communities in Europe will not succeed.
There is no justification for murder, and all British faith communities agree that those who commit acts of violence cannot do so in the name of any faith. Any such claim is illegitimate.
British Muslim communities are equally appalled by the violence, and angered by those who commit abhorrent acts in the name of religion. The perpetrators do not represent us; their views are perverse and self-serving.
We urge all communities in Britain and France to stand firm with compassion and solidarity. We must not let these terrorists divide us, otherwise the terrorists will win. Let us not play into their divisive narrative, and instead show them that people of all faiths and none can live peacefully, together.
Like the terrorists who want to divide communities, there will be some in the days ahead who will try to use this atrocity to attack innocent people. We equally reject their intentions.
It is evil people who do evil things; such acts will only increase our resolve to remain united.
A page full of signatures of people with vested interests doesn't exactly scream out the support of the communities across the country rude, as I posted earlier about the program on ch4 last night those preaching their hate were allowed to carry on with the grace of their community , what message does that send? that they don't care or that they condone or support those radicals or maybe they are scared of them, in which case they should report them to the authorities, whatever the scenario they failed on all counts.
Justice fails when good men stand by and do nothing
A page full of signatures of people with vested interests doesn't exactly scream out the support of the communities across the country rude,
I signed against the White Man March (Liverpool, August 2015) in an official capacity- 'officials' cannot just sign willy-nilly without the backing of the organisation that they are representing. Of course, individuals can sign such things in a personal capacity....in which case they would not add an endorsement/ affiliation
Impressive list for up to 24 hours after the atrocities in Paris.
There are 500 affiliated Muslim organisations in this country.
Note, Shuja Shafi. never shows his face.
He says; “We’ve never claimed to speak for everyone,”
One study found only 6% of Muslims felt the MCB represented their views, with younger people especially feeling the organisation was out of touch.
Is he doing anything ?
Has he done anything to tackle discrimination against women in Muslim communities ?
Condemning extremism is fine, but has MCB done anything in recent years to persuade people not to become radicalised ? Don't think so. It's worse now than before.
The MCB is critical of the Governments anti-terror preventative strategy, which apparently alienates Muslims. Or so they say.
I think they are panicking for fear of reprisals , hence the advert in the Telegraph ! A certain section of them, always see themselves as the victims, that's why they blame everyone else for the problems they face.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
we're just heading for an another world war and no-one will take the blame "it wasn't me it was them"
Someone has to break the loop, if you are convinced the other side won't then if you want peace you have to do it yourself.
The "allies" expertise lies in turning other country's civil wars in multi-national disasters.
I see Blair is back on a Middle-East peace mission at the same time as having to answer questions over war crimes and also calling for more military action???
The United Nations is doing its best to make sure the world is United???
NATO is operating way outside the North Atlantic area???
You couldn't make it up!
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Come on rude, you cant disregard the findings of the program because it was produced by ch4,, there are always comments made about the legitimate source of programs made by all the media and the press I know some are worse than others even the BBC are accused of bias, its up to the individual to cross reference across the media spectrum to assess a true picture, if some of the content of that program doesn't give you cause for concern then you must be blinkered, we are not talking refugees here but people promoting death and violence to everybody who won't follow their particular interpretation of religion and culture.
Strange you should mention 'cross reference' Casper. Further to my comment on one of my previous posts, regarding not all refugees are Muslim and that there is a large number of Christians too.
That point we do know for sure, as there are Christian and Coptic churches across many Muslim countries and they have been persecuted for a long time . More recently ,look at the Yazidi girls, for an example.
On reading an article last night there has suddenly been a huge rise in Muslim converts to Christianity. Thousands upon thousands of reports about young men having dreams about Jesus. Most of them had never heard of Jesus but knew instantly that it was him when he came to them and spoke to them. 'I am the way, the truth and the light '.
Well you all know that I am a believer in the power of Jesus , and at the same time, a sceptic on other issues . Could it be that this unprecedented conversion that is taking place across the Arab world and Africa, could later see them convert back again to Muslim once they are granted safety from the fear of beheadings in their own countries ?
Alternatively , if they are converting once they arrive in Germany (as many are) is that a good sign for continued peace of a nation.
Where there are obviously genuine cases, I feel very guilty at thinking that somehow it doesn't ALL ring true. There again, if they are prepared to lie about their own faith, then they can't have much of a belief.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Enough said.
and no-one will take the blame "it wasn't me it was them" 
