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#988068 - 25th Oct 2015 6:39pm Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits
Mark Online   Reading


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Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21002
Loc: Wirral
Labour has said it would support the government if it delayed plans to reduce tax credits, amid efforts to kill off the proposals entirely.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said cuts should be put on hold to study the impact on those affected and at least three years of transitional help given.
Labour would "not make political capital" out of any U-turn, he said.
Education Secretary Nicky Morgan said Labour had no "credible alternative" and the "policy wasn't changing".
She told the BBC's Andrew Marr show that Chancellor George Osborne was in "listening mode", ahead of a series of key votes on the issue on the House of Lords on Monday, where the government does not have a majority and faces possible defeat.
But she said she was not aware of any discussions about watering down the changes and it was important that the "overall package" offered by the government, including a new living wage, more free childcare and a higher personal income tax allowance, was taken into account.

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#988221 - 26th Oct 2015 7:45pm Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark]
RUDEBOX Offline
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Registered: 29th Aug 2008
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House Of Lords- get in!!!!
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#988263 - 26th Oct 2015 9:53pm Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
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House of Lords has delayed the case - a good result in the short term but its going to be a catastrophe in the long term.

The House of Lords doesn't make sense, on principal I strongly disagree with it BUT I am one of its strongest supporters, it works as an excellent safety net as this case has shown.

The catatstrophe? Its either going have its powers clipped or be changed into a completely different creature, Cameron won't take this defeat sitting down and unfortunately he has the power to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Its not the first time the the Lords has impeded a Government and its been under threat before but many believe that this is the Government that wants sole control.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#988297 - 27th Oct 2015 8:54am Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: diggingdeeper]
palemoon Online   content
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Registered: 27th Feb 2015
Posts: 178
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Ah!..... the gob on Osborne raftl

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#988320 - 27th Oct 2015 10:47am Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
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I thought it was the 'amazing' plan of IDS who had introduced this change to the scheme. There is also some unification with EU in either Tax Credit, Universal Credit or both. Under the changes, EU Job Seekers will not be able to claim these benefits until they have worked here for three months.
The Universal Credit was thought to cost 2.5 billion to roll out, instead it's cost 12.5 billion. !!

Changes have to be made if we are to move on, but personally IDS makes me scream from within. How does anyone get to such a major position of importance and inflicting changes on so many peoples lives, without qualifying or passing a single exam at a higher level of education ???? His whole life is a lie and he should go back to Scotland.

The Tax Credit system was an appalling idea in the first place, but we have now been entrenched in this idea and we feel we deserve it. Companies should have been paying a decent wage instead of scooping up the profits and redistributing in the form of 'bonuses' to the highest earners at the expense of the 'tax payers' and making people 'stinking rich' as Mr Mandelson called it. He had no objections and neither did Blair or Brown. All I can understand is, that they took the tax to give it back to the most wealthy and businesses , under a different label.

Along the same lines now, as the Lords have put a hold on it. Could it have anything to do with the fact that most of those sitting in the House of Lords are on the Board of Directors or Company owners and that they could indirectly be looking after their own best interest, with regard to rising wages ?

Nothing has ever been as straight forward as it appears , and I'm a ferret at heart.
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...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#988334 - 27th Oct 2015 12:31pm Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13687
Loc: Wirral
Here you are, in black and white;

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-house-of-lords-mixes-politics-and-business-1415693056


For centuries, the upper chamber of the British Parliament was filled largely by the landed gentry. But in 1999, then-Prime Minister Tony Blair ’s government replaced most of the hereditary lords with business people, civic leaders and politicians appointed for life. .............

Mr. Blair said the shift would “end the feudal domination of one half of our legislature.” Opponents said he was turning the House of Lords into a den of patronage—a “House of Cronies” to be occupied by a lord of “Lobbygate” and lord of “Offshore Funds,” said then-Conservative Party leader William Hague.......

Much as Mr. Hague had predicted, many lords now have ties to organizations that engage in lobbying, including one lord who agreed to be a lobbyist for an offshore-fund haven. Sixty-eight others give advice on government affairs to companies, trade groups or other organizations, or work for companies that specialize in government relations, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of financial disclosures as of early August.
One hundred and thirteen draw paychecks from financial-services firms. Twenty-six are paid by resource-extraction companies. Twenty work for foreign governments, in capacities that include advising officials on policy and consulting for government-controlled companies.

Some of those jobs materialized after they joined the House of Lords.
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#988341 - 27th Oct 2015 1:04pm Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9678
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: granny
The Universal Credit was thought to cost 2.5 billion to roll out, instead it's cost 12.5 billion. !!


And it is nowhere near like rolled out yet, IDS keeps it very close to his chest how much it is rolled out to hide the fact that he has cherry-picked the easy parts.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#988342 - 27th Oct 2015 1:07pm Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9678
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: granny
Much as Mr. Hague had predicted, many lords now have ties to organizations that engage in lobbying, including one lord who agreed to be a lobbyist for an offshore-fund haven. Sixty-eight others give advice on government affairs to companies, trade groups or other organizations, or work for companies that specialize in government relations, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of financial disclosures as of early August.
One hundred and thirteen draw paychecks from financial-services firms. Twenty-six are paid by resource-extraction companies. Twenty work for foreign governments, in capacities that include advising officials on policy and consulting for government-controlled companies.

Some of those jobs materialized after they joined the House of Lords.


Exactly the same as the House of Commons.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#988658 - 28th Oct 2015 7:50pm Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13687
Loc: Wirral
This has been sent to me.

When the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.


An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked well since no one would be poor and no one would be rich, thus providing a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on the Socialist plan" ... All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A ... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they likewise studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one was motivated to study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward (and risk) is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will work really hard to succeed. F.




These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.



Edited by granny (28th Oct 2015 7:53pm)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#988671 - 28th Oct 2015 9:03pm Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9678
Loc: Birkenhead
One would hope that an Professor of Economics would have better knowledge of what socialism is - but of course this story was originated by a capitalist who are experts at spreading malicious rubbish everywhere for personal gain.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#988673 - 28th Oct 2015 9:12pm Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: diggingdeeper]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13687
Loc: Wirral
It's a Professor of Economics . wink
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...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#988676 - 28th Oct 2015 9:19pm Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark]
Mark Online   Reading


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Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21002
Loc: Wirral
Watch the videos : CLick me

Cameron will not answer.. .


Edited by Mark (28th Oct 2015 9:23pm)
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#988680 - 28th Oct 2015 9:25pm Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9678
Loc: Birkenhead
And its a "Professor of Economics" not an Economics Professor - the reversal is how I ended up with "an" instead of "a" doh.

I'll stick with Maths, its easier than English.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#988694 - 28th Oct 2015 10:08pm Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13687
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: Mark
Watch the videos : CLick me

Cameron will not answer.. .


Yeh, watched it this afternoon. He continues to get stuck on repeat, and churn out the same answers, as have the rest of them when asked about the same subject.

Delay tactics, whilst the backroom boys come up with a plan that will be sneaked in under the blankets, so no one has to admit defeat. (Just my thoughts)

Pensioners will be the next target for them.
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#988742 - 29th Oct 2015 9:10am Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: granny]
casper Online   content
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Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1232
Loc: wallasey
Hello granny, yes I fear you are right about the pensioners, said at a fringe meeting during the Cons party conference, we should take the free bus passes and heating allowances away along with the cost of living rise on pensions, by the time of the next election most of them will be dead or will have forgotten which party it was that took those benefits away!!! perhaps Gideon will consider those outlandish requests to rehash his budget plans, who knows?

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