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#949322 - 2nd Jun 2015 10:22pm Bomb sites birkenhead/help with old map symbols
BennyBoy Offline
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Registered: 15th Nov 2009
Posts: 252
Loc: noctorum
Hi all

Wondering if you could help me. Do you know if there is somewhere which highlights on a map the bomb sites in Birkenhead. London has got something like this but not sure if we would have something ?

The reason I ask is that the field by my
House in bidston village has a large depression in the field, almost looks as though a pond was there which I know there wasn't . It's a circular depression and there's a trail away from it as well. When the grass it cut you notice it.

After looking at some old maps, in particular one from1874 at the spot of this point in the field there is a symbol which I can't Upload because I am on my
Mobile but the way I can describe is circles in circles in circles .....

Iv checked the old symbols and there are gravel pits and sand pits but it's not the same symbol? Any ideas?

For information, I have metal detected this area and I found an old steel harrow in this hole so there was farming on the field. But the hole doesn't look natural.......

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#949728 - 5th Jun 2015 8:38pm Re: Bomb sites birkenhead/help with old map symbols [Re: BennyBoy]
BennyBoy Offline
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Registered: 15th Nov 2009
Posts: 252
Loc: noctorum
This is the symbol I referred to earlier in the week, if you could let me know what this means?


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symbol.PNG



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#949772 - 6th Jun 2015 12:39am Re: Bomb sites birkenhead/help with old map symbols [Re: BennyBoy]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9767
Loc: Birkenhead
It is either a lake or a pond on topographic maps, bold outer border lighter inner rings.

On the Tithe maps it is clearly shown as a pond.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#949785 - 6th Jun 2015 8:12am Re: Bomb sites birkenhead/help with old map symbols [Re: BennyBoy]
BennyBoy Offline
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Registered: 15th Nov 2009
Posts: 252
Loc: noctorum
On another map it's just a circular outline.

After sort of 1940 it dissapears. I'll put a picture up of what's there now.

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#949852 - 6th Jun 2015 1:44pm Re: Bomb sites birkenhead/help with old map symbols [Re: BennyBoy]
chriskay Offline
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Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
I agree with DD; definitely a pond, as shown on the tithe maps.
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#950007 - 7th Jun 2015 12:26pm Re: Bomb sites birkenhead/help with old map symbols [Re: BennyBoy]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9767
Loc: Birkenhead
1950's colour maps show it as a pond as well.

At some time the height of that land seems to have been raised which is hardly surprising considering much of Bidston was bog land, the pit that is there now is possibly just sinkage into the soft pond mud underneath.

It depends on the purpose of the map as to what symbols are used and what items are recorded, depending what time of year and the weather would govern what the surveyor found.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#950069 - 7th Jun 2015 8:51pm Re: Bomb sites birkenhead/help with old map symbols [Re: BennyBoy]
BennyBoy Offline
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Registered: 15th Nov 2009
Posts: 252
Loc: noctorum
The field I am talking about in question is opposite the observatory school,
And opposite Lennox lane (in between)

Looking at old maps, the outline of the forest areas etc. havent hardly changed at all. There is quite a bit of gorse on the field but it seems to have been agriculture as I have metal detected on this field and found parts of steel harrows on there.

The only thing which has now dissapeared in some sort of footpath which goes from Church going towards the tennis centre and is marked by a row of trees.
There seems to be no trace of that. All I would say is that when the roundabout has been built at tesco there has been quite a build up at the side.

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#950127 - 8th Jun 2015 12:24am Re: Bomb sites birkenhead/help with old map symbols [Re: BennyBoy]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9767
Loc: Birkenhead
After closer examination it looks like the existing depression and the pond marked on the maps aren't the same one.

The pond location is east of a line running north from Bidston hall and north of a line drawn as an extension of Hoylake Road, this would place it under the bit of Hoylake Road joining the roundabout.

Another pointer is that the pond was north of the line drawn from the west-east section of Lennox lane (1935 maps onward) whereas I think the existing depression is south of this line.

I'll have a look at the plan maps next time I'm in the library.


Edited by diggingdeeper (8th Jun 2015 12:35am)
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#950311 - 8th Jun 2015 10:44pm Re: Bomb sites birkenhead/help with old map symbols [Re: BennyBoy]
fish5133 Online   content
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Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 2810
Loc: Heswallish
some of the ponds were marl pits which the farmers dug to extract marl for spreading on the land. The pond between Fender Way and the M53 not too far away was known as "The Crater" presumably due to Hitlers pilots

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#952830 - 27th Jun 2015 5:58pm Re: Bomb sites birkenhead/help with old map symbols [Re: BennyBoy]
BennyBoy Offline
Addict

Registered: 15th Nov 2009
Posts: 252
Loc: noctorum
That's what I was thinking when seeing this for the first
Time because it seems so out of place

However there are a series of man holes on the field
Which seems to suggest the earlier theory.

Saying that I have metal detected the area in question and found steel Harrow remains

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