There is always something being said about masonry, a lot of which is inaccurate and always leaning towards negativity! As a mason for many years I can honestly say that masonry continues to be of great benefit to many of the national charities and plenty of those on the Wirral! Masonry has also been of great personal benefit for me (not financially) and has taught me a lot about myself.
Anyone interested in what masonry is all about, how they contribute to charity or if interested in joining should take a look at the newly updated Cheshire Masons Internet page! http://www.cheshiremasons.co.uk
Anyone wanting to know more can always get I touch and I will be happy to help further.
Hi Nigel - thank you for your reply. Good to hear of another brother enjoying and appreciating masonry and what it does for the Wirral! Be great to hear from some others!
No, neither is it a substitute for religion. There are no Sacraments. Every member expresses a belief in a “Supreme Being” and there are members of all faiths working harmoniously in Freemasonry.
If you need any further clarity please PM me and I would be happy to send my details and happy to discuss.
There must be a national recruitment drive on and one wonders why. Daughter's boyfriend in Kent has been approached also. Plus, why is it all such a bloody big secret? Nobody talks freely about it, that is the mystery ! Belonging to secret societies is always a concern, particularly in this day and age. Societies within societies !
If every member has to believe in a 'supreme being' , then I think some may tell lies also . Don't certain members also belong to the 'Magic Circle'
A Secular Society, of which I think the word 'secular' should be re-established.
In this day and age 'men only' is very chauvinistic. Why is it men only, what do they do ? A few questions to be answered.
Last edited by granny; 18th Feb 20153:56pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
There must be a national recruitment drive on and one wonders why. Daughter's boyfriend in Kent has been approached also. Plus, why is it all such a bloody big secret? Nobody talks freely about it, that is the mystery ! Belonging to secret societies is always a concern, particularly in this day and age. Societies within societies !
If every member has to believe in a 'supreme being' , then I think some may tell lies also . Don't certain members also belong to the 'Magic Circle'
A Secular Society, of which I think the word 'secular' should be re-established.
In this day and age 'men only' is very chauvinistic. Why is it men only, what do they do ? A few questions to be answered.
i could answer you but we are not allowed to divulge things.
Giving to charity doesn't make a bad thing a good thing.
While in private business it is personal choice who you choose to do business with, here are many public officials that are members of the Free Masons and that is where the problem can arise. Free Masons swear to support fellow Free-Masons.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Hi Granny - not at all!! (recruitment drive). As someone who lives on and loves the Wirral I personally wanted people of the Wirral to know more about masonry and how it benefits the Wirral as well as many other charities nationally!
It's not a secret society but rather a society with secrets. Those secrets are open to those who join so not a big secret at all! Some do get confused on this point!
And no, there is no connection (that I know of) re the magic circle!
It may surprise you to know that masonry is open to women! So not as chauvinistic as you think! https://www.owf.org.uk
We never shy away from questions hence the really good website that tries to help with any people may have!
My overall point is there are lots of masons who line on the Wirral and each and every one of them continue to support charity and in many cases a lot on the Wirral!
Hi diggingdeeper! I can assure you nothing in freemasory is 'bad'! I am sure you will hear from others who will support my statement here! If there was anything bad I can assure you I wouldn't be a mason full stop! Fact is I, and many others are and we do this to support society and do good!
It's a common misconception regarding masons helping each other in business! Feemasons are like minded people from all walks of life As freemasons we take great pride in supporting those in need which isn't so much about each other but society in general! Hence the donations made to some great charities!
Hello Tait,Could a thoroughly good person who just happens, through no fault of his own,to live on benefits join the Masons? Or is it a case of no money no welcome?
Hi ludwigvan. It's certainly not a case of no money and no welcome. I would bet that there will be masons, like yourself, who are currently unemployed through no fault of there own!
Of course there are fees (joining, member fees etc) but there are various ways that these can be paid which can differ from one lodge to another. It's certainly not expensive when you consider this on a yearly basis!
If you want to know more about this PM me some contact details and I will get in touch if you like. Hope the Masonic site was of interest to you and appreciate your question.
Hi Tait,thanks for the reply and I find it interesting that you assumed I was asking on my own behalf,it was a hypothetical question as it is a few years since I was in the employment market.I do find it reassuring however,to know I could join the Masons by installments.
It was a society with secrets. Its a society with secrets that anyone can find put about any way. If its not religious why do the 12 tribes of Israel feature in it
Israel was the name given to Jacob by God, and the 12 tribes were descendants of Israel(Jacob).Originally the division of the Jewish people, and yes it is pertaining to religion and the exodus from Egypt.Only two tribes left apparently, one is the tribe of Asher, and I don't know which the other one is.
Off topic, but you did ask.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Still can't understand about those who don't believe in a God, and consider Him to be an imaginary friend of others, can be a Free Mason ?
Thanks for your earlier answers Tait1969, you have worked hard with us all, we aren't an easy bunch
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
To all those who have posted, asked questions and provided additional links- Thanks for your input and interest!
As i said at the beginning of my thread a lot is often written and linked to Freemasonry, some accurate and some not! Some positive and some negative.
To remind those who are reading. From my own personal perspective i have had nothing but positive experiences since i joined freemasonry. I personally have come to recognize a lot of the good that Masonry brings to society!
To note. Many of the sites and information linked to freemasonry often come with a disclaimer (as was the case in the last link) and for confirmation it reads as follows:
"THIS SITE IS NOT AN OFFICIAL SITE OF ANY RECOGNIZED MASONIC BODY IN THE UNITED STATES OR ELSEWHERE. IT IS FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND DOES NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE VIEWS OR OPINION OF FREEMASONRY, NOR WEBMASTER NOR THOSE OF ANY OTHER REGULAR MASONIC BODY OTHER THAN THOSE STATED".
Can you tell me Tait1969, if the above link I posted is all nonsense ? I know the introduction containing the explanation isn't, just wondering about the 'Twelve Original Points in Freemasonry'. Thanks
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Hi Granny - apologies but I wasn't saying it was nonsense! I was just pointing out that those that had written it had thought it important to put a disclaimer on!
I don't pretend to be a detailed historian but I will ask for you re the question you raise about the twelve original points!
In the meantime I'm sure we might have some others providing some clarity/ views!
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I understand that the origins of the secrecy come from medieval times when skilled craftsmen held dear the secrets of their skills/methods as a form of protectionism -forming guilds of craftsmen etc - these were the men who frequently wore leather aprons to perform their trade.
What is not clear, is why does the society need to be so secret now? Its been clear in the papers for a long time that middle classes have been shunning the masons because of the eccentricity of dressing up in aprons etc and the seemingly outrageous demand that you accept that if you divulge the secret vows, you will be open to bodily harm from other masons .(Please do make a point of denying that bit if you can put your hand on your heart and say its not true by the way,its only what Ive heard)
What good deeds /charitable works could you NOT perform now as a society , if you abandoned all the secret parts of the ceremonies?
In my personal experience , freemasons like to make themselves known to each other(as they have a sworn duty to support each other), but are far less keen to be known to 'outsiders'. Why not ?- wouldnt it be a fine thing to be proud of the good works? Mind you that would make it harder for Freemasons to support other Freemason in all other areas of life including the work place I suppose . After all, if a suitable candidate was overlooked in favour of a lesser one who happened to be a freemason , if everyone could identify half the panel as Freemasons , it would be awkwardly suspicious I suppose . (Not that Im saying that Freemasons would dream of partaking in any form of Nepotism -God forbid! )
Powerful secrecy is rarely a good thing. It can lead to people protecting others in totally unacceptable circumstances such as we have seen happen in the church and cults .
However I do acknowledge the good work masons do for charity , and the way they look after their own members after bereavements etc. Ive seen that bit in action, and its admirable. Id just like to see it done without the cloak and dagger stuff.
Freemasons promise to support other freemasons -- how far does that go then ?
Hi Venice - quite a post and not sure I will be able to cover everything!
Anyway here goes! You mention Aprons - yes it's widely known that masons wear aprons but they are simply part of the history and quite smart to wear actually! That said I wouldn't want people to read apron and build the wrong picture! It's all very professional and for those in masonry they know what these aprons signify!
You mention secrecy and ask why we need to be so secret now? The fact is we are openly sharing a lot of what we do ( I am in this post) for the good of society! As has been said before we are not a secret society but a society with some secrets! These secrets are part of the history and tradition and we reserve those for people who decide to join masonry - that's it! They are nothing evil or bad but simply tradition and valued!
So what if we decided to drop the Masonic bit and focus only on charity? Well, of course that would never happen but let's think for a minute. Charity and donations come from people. The more people the more donations and the more the needy and good causes benefit! The fact that masonry has a solid foundation both in terms of its history and its members (numbers) it is ideally suited to charity hence the vast amounts masons give to charity year on year. Strangely enough this isn't something we often talk about as masons simply need to know that hey are doing this and praise/recognition is not something we seek.
When we consider the 'looking after each other element' again this is something non masons often interpret in the wrong way! You mention some of the stuff we do in relation to this, bereavements etc and this is well known and something I would point to rather than some of the innacurcies often banded about! Brotherly love, relief and truth is not something we reserve for masons alone rather we use this as the basis of treating everyone the same including family, friends and anyone we aquintences!
Ever needed to take your child to hospital? For some children admitted to hopsital the visit is sometimes accompanied by the presentation of a teddy bear. Whilst this is just a small gesture its something that is hopeful of trying to take a child's mind off what is often a daunting experience!
Did you know that these teddy bears are provided by the TLC charity/appeal? Did you also know that the TLC appeal is not only supported by Masons but was created after an idea from one of its members.
Please feel free to check out the history and good work carried out by the TLC appeal which includes donations to some hospitals on the Wirral.
I was a member of Woodside Lodge for quite a number of years and one of the best nights was "Ladies Evening". Gorgeous Ladies everywhere, dressed to the Nines.Dancing,eating and drinking.I used to have to drag the Wife out.Happy Memories, lots of good friends.Unfortunately, I developed Cancer two years ago and was told by my Oncologist three weeks ago it's Terminal,luck of the draw I suppose.Anyway, if any of you fancy joining, go ahead, you wont regret it.Best Regards, Phil.
Sorry youve had such sad news tankrat.Your memories of your time with the masons sound very happy indeed .Even terminal cancer seems to give more time to sufferers than it used to with all the modern medicines available, so here's hoping you are able to spend some more quality time with friends and family to make whatever span allotted to you, the best it can be.
Yes Phil I had a wonderful time when I went to one of these ladies nights. Evening dress all dolled up I felt great. I was a few years ago but loved it, very much treated like a lady. I would also like to echo Venice and wish you the best Phil.
Hey Phil, thanks for you post and to hear of your good times with Woodside lodge. Your mention ( as well as the recent post from cools) of the Masonic ladies evening is a very positive one. I can echo that as my ladies evening was one of the best days ever for myself, family, friends and members of the lodge. We, like yourself have fond memories of those nights and think of them often. As you know ladies nights are something we do to recognise the support wives, partners and family provide to us as masons.
So sorry to hear of your sad news but Venice is right! Modern medicine is fantastic these days and I'm sure it will work for you and allow that quality time with family and friends as you need. Keep smiling and stay strong. Steve
Freemasonry is one of the world’s oldest secular fraternal societies. The following information is intended to explain Freemasonry as it is practised under the United Grand Lodge of England, which administers Lodges of Freemasons in England and Wales and in many places overseas.
Freemasonry is a society of men concerned with moral and spiritual values. Its members are taught its precepts (moral lessons and self-knowledge) by a series of ritual dramas - a progression of allegorical two-part plays which are learnt by heart and performed within each Lodge - which follow ancient forms, and use stonemasons’ customs and tools as allegorical guides.
Freemasonry instills in its members a moral and ethical approach to life: it seeks to reinforce thoughtfulness for others, kindness in the community, honesty in business, courtesy in society and fairness in all things. Members are urged to regard the interests of the family as paramount but, importantly, Freemasonry also teaches and practices concern for people, care for the less fortunate and help for those in need.
The Three Great Principles
Brotherly Love- Every true Freemason will show tolerance and respect for the opinions of others and behave with kindness and understanding to his fellow creatures.
Relief - Freemasons are taught to practice charity and to care - not only for their own - but also for the community as a whole, both by charitable giving and by voluntary efforts and works as individuals.
Truth - Freemasons strive for truth, requiring high moral standards and aiming to achieve them in their own lives. Freemasons believe that these principles represent a way of achieving higher standards in life.
I can only echo what Steve has said about Masonry on two fronts. The first thing is that my little boy nearly died in December 2011 in Arrows Park hospital and we spent that Christmas there. In the dark times my son clung to a little modest Teddy Bear that didn't cost much but had been donated by Cheshire Masons and meant so much to my son and his parents for the comfort it brought.I am glad to say my boy survived but it's a gesture I won't forget. Secondly I've been a Mason for 10 years and can say how much it's brought to my life not least with the friendships I've made.
Tait1969 , Unfortunately, I still am not convinced that the Free Masons is just a society for 'men', a friendship group that does charitable work and buys teddies for hospitals, or where members are simply required to have spiritual values. A thousand and one other charitable organisations do much the same. Everything has been a secret for 400 yrs plus and suddenly , everything is out in the open ! What took so long if there is no under lying mystery ?
Quote "1) "The candidate is then conducted to the centre of the lodge, where he and the Senior Deacon kneel, and the Deacon says the following prayer ..."
Therefore if praying is part of a ceremony, "the act of praying proves that a religion is being performed."
Masonic Symbol-The Masonic Eye is symbolic of the Eye of God. It is the symbol of His Divine watchfulness and His ever present care of the universe.
The Free masons have an alter and Holy Book and just about every symbol is related to the Old Testament. A symbol of place of communion with the Supreme Architect of the Universe, who doesn't happen to be a Christian God. Is it the Jewish God or is it Ialdabaoath, that has been suggested many times before. As the Masons embrace 'all' world major religions is all this dutifully progressing to one World Order, as has also been mentioned many times before ? I suspect !
Quote "Today, as then, ...each of us must sacrifice ourselves up to the Great Architect, atone for our sins and only then, may we commune with Him ".
taken from the Masonic-lodge-of-eduation.com
Not having a pop at you Tait, just very interested to find out more.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
There seems to be strong Masonic references on the Great Seal of the U.S.A. which was created at the time of independence in 1776. The pyramid, the seeing eye and the Latin "Annuit Coeptis" meaning "He has favoured our undertakings" (the 'He' is undefined) and "Novus Ordo Seclorum" usually translated as "A new Order for the Ages". There is an interesting book, published in the 1980's, which purports to be an exposé of the Masonic movement, called "The Brotherhood". I remember, many years ago when I was working as a builder, being asked by a potential client whether I was "on the square". I've always assumed that he was trying to find out if I was a Mason. I've always assumed (as a non-Mason), that preference in any business would be by a Mason to another Mason.
Worked for a Mason years back and he was asked to remove his masonic cufflinks in a council meeting discussing business with his firm. A good friend of mine was a vicar in a church which had a strong masonic influence and because he was opposed to it they forced him out. So he has nothing good to say about them
Fish, so why is this the fault of the masons? Just because others don't know the facts and are naive enough to think and do such things is disappointing. It's nothing to do with masonry and more to do with people and their inaccurate and often I'll advised thinking.
I can assure you there are lots who do have good things to say and those that don't are in the minority!
There seems to be strong Masonic references on the Great Seal of the U.S.A. which was created at the time of independence in 1776. The pyramid, the seeing eye and the Latin "Annuit Coeptis" meaning "He has favoured our undertakings" (the 'He' is undefined) and "Novus Ordo Seclorum" usually translated as "A new Order for the Ages". There is an interesting book, published in the 1980's, which purports to be an exposé of the Masonic movement, called "The Brotherhood". I remember, many years ago when I was working as a builder, being asked by a potential client whether I was "on the square". I've always assumed that he was trying to find out if I was a Mason. I've always assumed (as a non-Mason), that preference in any business would be by a Mason to another Mason.
Chris,It would appear that 'Illuminati ' have the same symbols .
The All-Seeing Eye or the Eye of Providence is the preeminent symbol and most widely recognized symbol of the Illuminati.
After doing a bit of piecing together, it is no secret that Illuminati and Freemasons have to be connected. This passage would confirm the activities of 'Illuminati'
"In subsequent use, "Illuminati" refers to various organisations which claim or are purported to have links to the original Bavarian Illuminati or similar secret societies, though these links are unsubstantiated. They are often alleged to conspire to control world affairs, by masterminding events and planting agents in government and corporations, in order to gain political power and influence and to establish a New World Order. Central to some of the most widely known and elaborate conspiracy theories, the Illuminati have been depicted as lurking in the shadows and pulling the strings and levers of power in dozens of novels, movies, television shows, comics, video games and music videos."
Illuminati Symbols
Illuminati money spells
The secret to making money are strong illuminati money spells
Last edited by granny; 21st Feb 201511:05pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Re an walruses post I would just like to say this - reading a prayer and someone/people praying are two different things! If someone happens to read a prayer - out of a book, off the Internet or similar does that make them religious? When most people (myself included) were at school they we're asked to repeat prayers - did that mean they were religious? Of course not and it doesn't neccesarily mean they are because they do!
Reference to the illuninati and great seal of the USA/ American dollar. It's well known that books and films such as those written by Dan Brown (Davinci Code/ Angela & Demons) and the National Treasure - book of secrets all make reference to masonry. But are they true/accurate? Many of these books/ films and articles are written to pull people in and get people interested for a particular reason! It all makes for a good 'hook' as they say!
The thing is, as masons (and me personally) we just do what we do because we know it is doing good! It's not a bad / negative thing and it actually does make good men/ women better!
In this sense I will continue to be a mason and do my bit for society/ charity in the way we/ I do. I will leave others to the conspiracies and stories! Happy reading and piecing together!
There are many different reasons why people join the Freemasons - one of the main reasons is camaraderie. Many friendships made through Freemasonry endure for life, and lodge dinners which follow our formal meetings offer members the opportunity to enjoy each others' company in a more relaxed and informal environment.
Most importantly of all though, Freemasonry is all about enjoyment - if members didn't enjoy Freemasonry they would not remain part of the organisation in the way that they do.
In fact, Dan Brown has absolutely nothing to do with my opinions or thoughts. Probably most others know his books to be mainly fantasy.
I was really looking at loads of information relating to Freemasons, where Illuminati and Freemasons were linked. Illuminati was/is real, and obviously Freemasons is still as real. So no mystery to that, and you cannot deny they use the same symbols. Absolutely nothing to do with Dan Brown.
Your reference to 'an walrus' (whatever that's supposed to mean, maybe someone else put that word in your head) and prayer. If part of ceremony is to read a prayer, there should be conviction behind that prayer, otherwise the commitment is fake and meaningless. So I assume that by admission, that is your position. Definition of prayer = a solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or another deity. Whichever deity it is, you are all adults and should not be behaving like school children. There again , most of Westminster behave like school children, shouldn't expect more from the minions should we ?
The Freemasons as a whole are hoping to change their reputation, but so far, the accusations and accounts against their operating is far greater. The internet is a great place for communication now. One wonders why so many feel the need to expose and we cannot deny,that many members of the organisation have themselves done some 'whistle blowing'
My questions have not really be answered although I suppose you have done your best on a basic level, so I hope you achieve your charitable aims and goals. Good luck Tait
Last edited by granny; 22nd Feb 201512:47pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
I suppose most ordinary members are in it with the intention of good deeds and enjoying themselves, but in any movement/society there is an elite with a possible hidden agenda who need them as foot soldiers. Are your leaders chosen by an all member vote or a committee. How do you get to be a GrandMaster? or whatever?
Personally I'm all for a world encompassing power that could sort out some of the problems we have nowadays so long as it isn't for personal gain in any way.
The United Nations appear to be fairly toothless about sorting some of these problems out
Tait: you said early in the thread "It's a common misconception regarding masons helping each other in business". This I simply don't believe. My own experience when a potential client asked whether I was "on the square" indicates to me that he wished to give that job to a Mason. There are also documented cases when an accused in a court was seen to be giving a Masonic sign in the hope of obtaining leniency from a judge whom he knew to be a Mason: (there is no suggestion that the judge helped him). I can see little to object to in the basic orders of Masonry; up to Master Mason, but I do worry about the higher orders. It's well known that the Masonic order is well represented among the police and the judiciary: that does bother me a bit.
I joined 12+ years ago and can honestly say I have never looked back. I've been through the chair and get involved in another side degree meeting different people and having a good laugh. When I joined a guy described it as "Big Boys Bingo" and it sticks with me. I was in the Scout Association and played Rugby with the same group of mates that I'm in Lodge with - and I get the same 'crac' as I have done with the other clubs... In fact in some ways they are very similar in the set-up and running! My wife gives me a "pass-out" and I enjoy the masonic bit and then some good food and plenty of beer and laughs afterwards!! But its not for everyone - something you either want to do, or you are not interested. I have friends who I know would never be interested or have any desire to join and I have top respect for that! Of course should they ever change their mind then they know where I am The "secrets" give it the edge - something to learn along the journey - its what I want to do, its my hobby.. like watching football every night in front of the TV but again personal choices.
For most of us, charity means giving help to those in need - regardless of age, beliefs, disability, gender, pregnancy, race or sexual orientation - but studying the Freemason organization, charity for them seems to mean manipulating Gift Aid and the favourable tax treatment afforded to charities, so that they can give more to themselves and their friends. To illustrate this, if you visit the United Grand Lodge of England website, you can click on the "Charitable Work" link, and discover that Freemasons channel their charitable efforts through four charities. Then, if you check the eligibility requirements for each of those supposed charities, you will see that they all restrict their help to Freemasons, former Freemasons and close dependents of Freemasons. Therefore, if you give money to one of the Masonic Charities, you might believe that you are supporting worthy local causes, but in fact all you are likely doing is making a payment into some Freemason's Healthcare scheme, Insurance policy or Pension pot, etc. Indeed, the Taxman recently agreed with us, when Judge Charles Hellier ruled that the Freemason governing body was not sufficiently "philanthropic" to be exempt from VAT. Noting that only between 25 and 30 percent of the Grand Lodge's charity donation go to causes with no Masonic connections, - See more at: http://fallingmasonry.info/index.html#sthash.z6bDz2wq.dpuf
My opinion is the unsuspecting minions have been lead to believe they are the fund raisers (the unpaid workers) for good causes, when it's quite a different set up.
Last edited by granny; 24th Feb 20152:47pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
granny, like anyone you are entitled to your opinion but I'm afraid to say your wrong on a lot of counts. We certainly do not give more to ourselves and friends!
I suggest you start to look at the millions handed to good causes and not simply focus on what can be made to look bad! Again, anyone involved in freemasonry knows what money goes where with most going to charity. This is a fact!
I'm not sure what your objective is here but suffice it to say your opinions and views are coming across very negative with respect to freemasonry! As you are not a Freemason you would never know exactly how it works and the truth of it all. In this sense it will always be guess work I'm afraid.
Hi Granny, You are probably right in a sense ... Masons do look after their own - and why not? I put in, so if I needed help in later years or my family did then I would have an organisation to look after me. Let's be honest the state is never going to give the likes of us a second look if we really needed help.
However your link isn't correct, or at least from what I personally believe it isn't correct. If you kindly see https://www.grandcharity.org/pages/grants_to_chari-disaster_relief-373.html Since 1981, over £2.4 million has been given to help the victims of floods, earthquakes, famines and other terrible events worldwide.
I don't think everyone that received aid (and not including the excellent Teddy Bears - TLC!) is a mason or knows of, or even cares as long as they get the aid.
I'm told the UK's second biggest charity is Masonic charity - first being National Lottery ... This is what I believe. National Lottery doesn't help me - only if its "Art" or some waste of money to a certain group that won't benefit most of us... (but that's a different discussion!)
So I don't apologise for belonging to an organisation that looks after it's own if (God help me) I needed it but also does 'some' good to anyone else when they need help the most.
We don't do any harm or mean harm to anyone.. Just like Rotary, Young Lions etc., or even a group of people who want to go for a beer every now and then!
Of course maybe there are people who join Masonary to gain or think they have special rights or powers .. but a prat or whatever stronger you call them, will be a prat of regardless of whatever they join or do with their life!! And I would never be part of a society that promoted that - I can assure you that.
If its good enough for Billy Butlin, Tommy Cooper and my ex grandfather in law its good enough for me. The website linked to also has major flaws, its states "which over half the human race is completely denied access to, since women, Atheists and people with disabilities are banned from joining." - See more at: http://fallingmasonry.info/heresy.html#.dpuf Yet it list the names of women members, I am a disabled atheist and have honoured to be asked to join lodges in both Shropshire and locally. I declined both for personal reasons. I have also seen some of the good works done. Wherever there is secrecy there will always be those that call foul play. Keep up the good work Masons.
As neither of you were prepared to answer DerekDWC question nor Chriskays question, I wonder why you both home in on my opinion. (response to a feeble woman or a macho male dominance ?)
Yes, I am entitled to my opinion, the same as others are allowed to have their opinion against other groups, and my opinion is that The Freemasons is classed as a charity for the benefit of the hierarchy, their own members and associates. Under the banner of 'charity' it is able to avoid tax. As Camelot raises approx. £33million each week, one has to wonder how much the Masonic charities raise each week, being the largest UK charity ! The National Lottery, as it happens, is now owned by the Canadian Teachers Pension Fund (obviously a government body).So your beliefs are also wrong. The Masonic charity must be the largest charity in the UK.
This was the TAX MAN'S opinion, not mine Taxman recently agreed with us, when Judge Charles Hellier ruled that the Freemason governing body was not sufficiently "philanthropic" to be exempt from VAT. Noting that only between 25 and 30 percent of the Grand Lodge's charity donation go to causes with no Masonic connections,
Bravo !Freemasons provide £2m to the Asian Tsunami of 2004. vai their own accounts and gaining interest.
Direct appeal to the public made it look pathetic
The British public responded with amazing generosity to the worst natural disaster in living memory, donating £400 million to the Disasters and Emergency Committee (DEC) appeal. As a member of the DEC, we received £37 million from the appeal, as well as raising more than £10 million from our own website and individual church appeals.
It has to be said that I have no qualms against either of you, as I believe you are in for the good of involvement, but you cannot deny that the Freemasons is a very, very powerful organisation. It has branches based in just about every country,involves itself in just about every government, (apart from various Muslim Countries that have banned them, due to having too much connection with Zionism)and every possible bank, business, industry, exploration, scientific research, etc.et.etc in this world. I believe them to have manipulative powers,and connections to indiscriminate tendencies. There is one point which baffles me. Your comment
"National Lottery doesn't help me - only if its "Art" or some waste of money to a certain group that won't benefit most of us... (but that's a different discussion!)
So I don't apologise for belonging to an organisation that looks after it's own if (God help me) I needed it but also does 'some' good to anyone else when they need help the most."
.....which surely takes away the whole generous gift of giving, and leads to a simple phrase of 'feathering ones own nest'. Only if there is something in it for you, is what you say. Appalling attitude and if everyone could pay £2 a week into a charity box instead of into the National Lottery with hope of being winners and something in it for them, they wouldn't do it.
Tait, You say we don't know, but your first post was to explain that you were there to answer any questions. Answer this. What is the connection to the Hindu Goddess ISIS and the Freemason ?
By the way, I must agree that I am not a Freemason, but have to admit that many of my family, past and present have been and still are. It doesn't make me like a secret organisation any better. Why doesn't it come under the FOI act ?
i.e. 2 questions.
Last edited by granny; 24th Feb 20157:03pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
There is very clear evidence that many leaders of commerce and public offices are Freemasons. Personally in the case of one of my earliest employers it was well known that unless you belonged you would not get on.This changed over the years as they had to get more professional or disappear. My ex next door neighbour was Grand Master of the local lodge and asked me to join on the grounds that if anything happened to me then my wife would want for nothing and I need never worry about unemployment.I declined as I did not like the idea of the secrecy. I have no doubt that Masons do give lots of money to charity although they do seem very specific about the recipients.
In 2012,the three (main?) Masonic charities were nowhere near the top of the charity league tables, one was about 280th and the others behind that, combining the three charities gets to about 100th position.
Lol..Granny just a feeble woman?? I think not, I love your ability for confrontational debate. Keep it up..even if I don't agree with all you say.
Geemeister; I suppose one has to reply, or you may have a 'hissy' fit.
Not agreeing,just makes it all the better to challenge .
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
There is alot of similarities with freemasonary and mormonism. The special underwear that mormon missionaries wear has the masonic square and compass stitched into them.The mormon temple rituals are also similar. Some of the Christian churches state that being a freemason and a christian are not compatible. Now they dont say that about being a member of the local golf club.The criticisms are not at the individual mason but at the secret rituals. I personally wouldnt want to join any group that had secrets that i wouldnt find out about till i had become initiated. Thats a little too occultic for me.
What secrets???? Anyone joining Freemasonary to learn "secrets" is going to be sadly disappointed - also if they think they will get treated favourable by others in high office then they will also very be sadly disappointed; Freemasonary is 100% not for them. If anyone is really desperate to learn anything then 'google is your friend'.. but honestly like newspapers don't believe everything you read So feel free to ask if there is no secrets or "benefits" then what is the point?? For me it is a hobby and like all hobbies costs me a bit of money. If you expectation is "Big Boys Bingo" then Freemasonary is also worth considering.. But not for everyone - like watching Football is not for everyone!! Freemasonary is a progressive science.. I learn history as I go. It is like when I did my degree at Liverpool Uni... I didn't actually learn everything until I completed the degree and not when or before I started.
One last post as I don't want to offend anyone. That's the point its peoples own free will Anyone who does want to find out more information, take the mickey or even come up with even more conspiracy theories then there is a YouTube video: Feel free to watch or ignore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da0FZyLktLg What's It All About? – what it means to be a Freemason
NB: If anyone is serious interested then please PM me for more information, otherwise I will stop replying.
Masonry is a personal choice, and like life you can either try to better yourself through knowledge and understanding or decide to take the easier route of not challenging yourself. I am proud to be a member of a supportive and growing lodge.
Good Luck but you won't convince me of it's 'pure' intentions. Too may people like Jimmy Savile, Greville Janner, Cyril Smith, Paul Gadd, Max Clifford, Rolf Harris, Peter Sutcliffe and they are all Fremasons !
Anyway, you obviously are happy with your connections to the Society that protects it's members.
Why does this remind me of the Freemasons ? Fabulous piece of furniture
[youtube]MKikHxKeodA[/youtube]
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
It depends on how the "brothers" use their membership. I know of many instances of it being used for promotion prospects, circumnavigation of the law (albeit for a minor offence) and self aggrandizement. I packed in going to a similar "brotherhood" after 30 years because of the way it was being used. You can't bury your head in the sand and only see the noble stuff, there are murky goings on as well.
In response to your post Tankrat......would I wish to !
Very sorry to know of your ill health , but I hope you feel well enough to fill your days with beauty and love.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Good Luck but you won't convince me of it's 'pure' intentions. Too may people like Jimmy Savile, Greville Janner, Cyril Smith, Paul Gadd, Max Clifford, Rolf Harris, Peter Sutcliffe and they are all Fremasons !
Ha ! Greville Janner got off again, due to ill health. He wasn't ill the first time around. Protectionism and delay tactics at the extreme.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
I have never understood why he was never charged with the offences in 1991. Now his council play the 'lack of memory' get out of jail card. I bet his victims wish they were able to forget. A vile man protected by vile and corrupt hierarchy.
I have never understood why he was never charged with the offences in 1991. Now his council play the 'lack of memory' get out of jail card. I bet his victims wish they were able to forget. A vile man protected by vile and corrupt hierarchy.
"He was previously investigated in the early 1990s but detectives on the case were told by senior officers that they must not arrest the MP or search his property."
So I presume these senior officers are being investigated!
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Should be more investigated. Only this month has he been suspended from the Labour Party, over the allegations of child abuse.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
I'm not sure how right you are DD, the senior officers presented files to the CPS on three other occasions and it was the CPS that said there was insufficient proof to procede. The current CPS now states that the earlier cases had been dealt with wrongly and are requesting an investigation.
" Mike Creedon, currently the Chief Constable of Derbyshire Constabulary, claimed that in 1989, whilst he was serving as a Detective Sergeant, senior police chiefs severely limited his enquiries into paedophilia allegations against Janner, despite 'credible evidence' that warranted further investigation."
That was before Frank Beck's trial (1991) during which the accusation against Janus became public. Janus was interviewed in 1991, 2002 and 2006, the 2002 documents weren't passed to the CPS.
In 2013 he was investigated but not interviewed though the evidence file was sent to the CPS.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Well, his family have said he's entirely innocent of any wrongdoing, so I suppose that's it then !!
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
My take on it is that it is at best rather silly and pointless, and at worst, a way of members helping each other out, often to the disadvantage of others.
The influence they wield is quite huge and insinuates itself in all kinds of nooks and crannies. Career promotions, getting off with charges, fiddling the books, self aggrandisement etc etc. All sly nods and winks in the form of hand signals and secret phrases and answers is how they recognise each other and they act accordingly from then on. That's always been my opinion of them and I've seen nothing different even though they now protest that they've cleaned their act up, it's a smoke screen.
Ha ! Greville Janner got off again, due to ill health. He wasn't ill the first time around. Protectionism and delay tactics at the extreme.
Absolutely appalling .
And he's been let off yet again, his crimes will be trialled, but Janner himself won't be.
Surely there is a limit to how many times the establishment can close ranks and cover up very public cases like these.
Its blatantly obvious that perjury has been committed and where are the trials for these?
What a ridiculous system. Is it likely that the evidence will be released into the public forum, or behind closed doors and kept in secret file number 666 ?
Stinks !
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
He's fireproof and so are the others who were up to their shennanigans with him. It's the poor lads I feel sorry for. Turns out that someone I knew was involved in something similar, he's doing 13 years now but some other cases have come to light which he didn't own up to so he's being done again. Makes me sick thinking of it and I've got to admit that there were no outward signs of what he was doing. It's even worse when you know some of the victims as well. How they exert the influence they do I don't know. It's a pretty sick world we're living in.
There's another who would appear to be 'fireproof' too.
33 Degree Freemason, Tony Blair. The Chilcot inquiry that began in 2009, has yet again been held up. Not expected until next year now, after the panic that it could have been released before the election. Maybe they are having a race to see who drops dead first. Then it won't happen at all.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Lord Janner has failed to turn up to court this morning, after the ruling of the High Court judge on Wednesday. Anybody else would now be under arrest and put behind bars. There has to be something not nice for his family and protectors to be surrounding and assisting him this way. Innocents usually like to clear their name.
More fiddling behind the curtains.
Also noticed he is a member of the Magic Circle. Interesting to know how many more are part of this or another secret organisation.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
A cynic might be led to believe that they (Jenner, Heath, Saville etc.) join the Free Masons in order to be protected should any of their perverted activities become known.
There is a webpage with a lot about Blair and Jenner. Don't now if it's true or conspiracy , who would ? So I don't think I could put it linked here. It mentions that in 1997, Blair made Jenner a member of the House of Lords.
Quote: As a member of the House of Lords, who are appointed essentially by the Sovereign on the recommendation of the Prime Minister rather than voted in as are the members of the House of Commons, Janner cannot be removed from office by the people.1 A "privilege" enjoyed by both Houses is that of freedom from arrest, although it is not total any longer..
So when the first allegations were made, possibly he was still protected under 'the privilege' .
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Read the article. and noted his Magic Circle membership but nothing about his freemasonary. Wouldn't surprise me given that he had been reported to police by police and it didn't go any further.
It now appears that he could have been abusing children since 1955. The inquiry is set to last for 5 years, at a cost of £17.9 million.
If he is found guilty , would that mean that costs eventually come out of his estate, or is this cost to the tax payers of this country ? Oddly enough, the deeds of his £2 million flat , were transferred to his children during the enquiries of the paedophile allegations against him.
Strange isn't it ?
Last edited by granny; 9th Mar 20167:03pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
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