WikiWirral Share a Little Learn a Lot about your Wirral
Forum Stats
12182 Members
65 Forums
72585 Topics
978167 Posts
64 posts in the last 24hrs
Max Online: 7831 @ 8th Apr 2013 4:18pm
Who's Online - Click Me
97 registered (Apg2003, 16 invisible), 1604 Guests and 233 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


(Views 7days)This Weeks Most Read
Broweser for web novice 593
Need help 359
Wirral High Tides? 340
Sometimes You Could Strangle Someone 312
Found a mobile phone 14/01/2017 WALLASEY 311
Asbestos shed removal 295
Lost Mobile Phone 236
RAC ,AA v Breakdown Recovery 223
I, Daniel Blake 217
Rip 2017 (May offend) 216
New General Forums
The Green Eyed Girl
by granny
Yesterday at 10:33 PM
Breastfeeding Dads Want to Be A Breastfeeding Hero
by fish5133
16th Jan 2017 1:24pm
9\11 Jumpers
by cools
15th Jan 2017 10:04am
Silent Solution
by venice
14th Jan 2017 9:58pm
New Wirral History
What was County Hall, Abbey Street, Birkenhead?
by yoller
15th Jan 2017 1:28pm
752 The Old Manor Club, Withens Lane, Liscard
by Norton
13th Jan 2017 2:20pm
751 Plough Inn, Mount Pleasant Rd, New Brighton
by Norton
13th Jan 2017 1:38pm
351 Prince Alfred 30 Tunnel Road 30 30 to 32
by yoller
8th Jan 2017 7:18pm
167 Wirral Arms George Street 9 Grange Street
by yoller
8th Jan 2017 7:11pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
fireworks on the Mersey last night
Hadlow train station
Topic Replies
Paypal help
by goodoldphil
19 minutes 31 seconds ago
viewsonic 22" monitor
by tommybarry
Yesterday at 11:06 PM
The Green Eyed Girl
by granny
Yesterday at 10:33 PM
Taylors Villas 1874 any info?
by marty99fred
Yesterday at 10:12 PM
Does anyone remember the welly club in tranmere
by Collette63
Yesterday at 08:37 PM
A Little Girl Gets A Kitten
by fish5133
Yesterday at 06:19 PM
Astra 1.9 diesel 06
by lansyp
Yesterday at 05:55 PM
Wanted old cars spares or repairs
by lansyp
Yesterday at 05:51 PM
Secretive mega shake-up of NHS could cost £15 mil
by fish5133
Yesterday at 04:45 PM
January
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Indian/Jazz fusion music Liverpool
by buddy
Yesterday at 09:46 AM
Chinese New Year Liverpool
by paxvobiscum
15th Jan 2017 11:08am
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#921205 - 13th Jan 2015 5:51pm Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13649
Loc: Wirral
William Gawin Herdman (also known as W. G. Herdman; 1805–1882) was an English author and painter, known for his scenes in the Liverpool area.
Herdman was a self-taught painter who started sketching in his early teens, documenting the city of Liverpool, making notes about how the city and its buildings were changing as the city grew. Herdman painted around 2,000 water colours of Liverpool scenes which were included in the book, “Herdman’s Liverpool” which appeared in several editions after his death in 1882. "Born in Liverpool in 1829, William married Elizabeth Munro in 1852 and had at least four children. He was a fine artist, but did not achieve the same level of success as his father, possibly lacking his self-belief and flair for promotion. His accuracy of representing locations can be confirmed with maps and Gore's street directory." Father and son painted numerous watercolours of Liverpool and Wirral, depicting the area from the late 18th century, often copying earlier works, through to the 1860s. They also record street furniture, people and fashions. W G and William Herdman recorded everything in a fast-changing Liverpool. As soon as they heard any area was to be cleared, they were out there painting. That's how we are so lucky to have illustrations of everything from St George's Hall to Cumberland Street's long-lost slums. Herdman's paintings provide a 'snapshot' of our region that rival's any modern photographic record.
In this article we have an excellent selection of Herdmans work, which was put together by Kevin Keegan, from 'Yo Liverpool Forum' , who provides the descriptions

http://www.liverpoolpicturebook.com/2013/01/WGHerdman.html

Click on the images to enlarge them



Edited by granny (13th Jan 2015 5:52pm)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
Wirral History Advertising
Click me for more Information......

WikiWirral Numbers : Between 150 and 200 New Members Every Month. With Over 3,500 unique visits and 35,000 Page Views each day. Average +500 Search Engines Daily and over 1,000,000 Million Page views a Month. Advertising from £20 . Click Me
#921363 - 14th Jan 2015 10:47am Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13649
Loc: Wirral
This is interesting, as Joseph Williamson died in 1840.After acquiring the land abut 1805 he first started to build houses. The vast amount of tunnelling in a relatively short period of time, without the use of mechanical diggers is quite remarkable. They are still finding items now as they continue to unearth. Picture by Herdman painted 18yrs after Williamson's death. So the tunnels must have just been abandoned. I wonder if they have found any skeletons down there.


Mason Street, Edgehill. Showing entrance to the excavations for
tunnels made by Joseph Williamson. 1858.





Edited by granny (14th Jan 2015 10:59am)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
#921364 - 14th Jan 2015 10:55am Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
snowhite Offline

Wiki Guide

Registered: 31st Jan 2014
Posts: 5565
Loc: Wirral
Great thread Granny.Thanks for sharing.

Top
#921377 - 14th Jan 2015 12:04pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
derekdwc Online   content


Forum Veteran

Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 4960
Loc: Birkenhead
granny this site with wirral paintings may interest you
click

Top
#921397 - 14th Jan 2015 2:55pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: derekdwc]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Thanks, Granny; he was an excellent architectural painter. I'd not heard of him.
_________________________
Carpe diem.

Top
#921399 - 14th Jan 2015 3:18pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
RUDEBOX Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Aug 2008
Posts: 19050
Loc: Bob Land
Great thread. Thanks for sharing.
_________________________
Mia Mabel


Top
#921418 - 14th Jan 2015 5:31pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: RUDEBOX]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
For anyone interested in a more recent pictorial record of Liverpool I can recommend "Ainscough's Liverpool",
ISBN 1 872568 64 5
A marvellous collections of photographs from 1966-68.
The very first picture is one of Central Station.
This is the cover.


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
2015-01-15 13-38-50_0076.jpg




Edited by chriskay (15th Jan 2015 2:23pm)
Edit Reason: Added pic.
_________________________
Carpe diem.

Top
#922945 - 22nd Jan 2015 8:04pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
bri445 Offline

Veteran

Registered: 27th Apr 2009
Posts: 678
Loc: Isle of Wight
Harold Hobbs' at Bebington and Eastham are my favourites, some just memorable, or at least recognisable.
Thanks for the links.

Top
#959459 - 27th Aug 2015 10:01pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13649
Loc: Wirral
Granny on a mission. Any points welcome.

With reference to the mention of the Williamson Tunnels , and the fact that there isn't a topic on the Williamson Tunnels (Liverpool) I thought my comments would be better placed on this page.

Anyway, having just watched a programme on BBC2 about the Romans and their building of Rome, having the most amazing tunnel type structures , still intact, for a vast sewage system, it brought to mind that maybe Joseph Williamson was trying to do the same thing.

The Williamson tunnels were built between 1810 and 1840 , in 1810 water closets were introduced and connection to the main sewer was confined to the wealthy people. Right hand column https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rZVF...840&f=false

Joseph Williamson being a philanthropist may have been building a sewer system for the people of Liverpool not just an aimless project to occupy the people .

Maybe the different levels could have been for the different levels of street. I think parts of Liverpool such as Toxteth were quite undulated at that time and I understand that some of the tunnels also headed towards the river. Nice exit for affluence.

The only thing that is questionable, is the fact that someone must have thought of this before but has obviously dismissed it. Do you think it possible ?
These pics have a similarity, Rome and Williamson's,Liverpool. I wonder if he ever went to Rome.

Rome

Rome

Williamson

Williamson


Edited by granny (27th Aug 2015 10:02pm)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
#959464 - 27th Aug 2015 10:31pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9655
Loc: Birkenhead
He didn't build tunnels, he built bridges.

The land was previously small quarries that were worthless as they were too expensive to infill. Williamson realised that if he bridged over the quarries he would create high value development land after paying very small amounts for the land.

Quarries in the past were often leased by the square foot, for this reason they were often small narrow holes but very deep, an example can be seen at Ben's Quarry in the woods at the back of Helsby hill.

I'm sure there is a thread somewhere when the WikiWirral Team went to help dig out the Williamson Tunnel's, a hard but very enjoyable experience.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top
#959470 - 27th Aug 2015 11:43pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: diggingdeeper]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13649
Loc: Wirral
The website constantly refers to him building and constructing tunnels. However, I understand what you are saying so my theory is completely wrong. Never mind , God loves a trier. pray
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
#959472 - 28th Aug 2015 12:44am Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9655
Loc: Birkenhead
The myth built up about his philanthropy because nobody could understand why else he built the "tunnels".

Various grants were available for the opening up of the tunnels because Williamson was believed to be a philanthropic patron of Liverpool.

However comprehensive research by Gerry Lucas and David Bridson came up with the following:-

Quote:
“We suggest that the tunnels were wildcat sandstone slot quarries providing dimension stone for some of the grand buildings of the expanding and rich mercantile Liverpool and that Williamson saw an opportunity to develop land on the hill by building a system of arches that covered the slots and then provided the foundation for urban housing. In effect, his business acumen produced one of the earliest and most profitable forms of quarry restorations.”


This was debated at Edge Hill University in 2012, I have no idea of the outcome but I assume their evidence was fairly compelling and their paper can be viewed HERE
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top
#959485 - 28th Aug 2015 9:43am Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: diggingdeeper]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13649
Loc: Wirral
Yes, I had read about the debate, but also read somewhere else that there was no conclusion .

This is of interest : Painting by Herdman of :

Inscribed on mount: "Grove Street and Oxford Street, The old Water-course from Mosslake."
Inscribed with signature and date in lower left corner of the sheet: "Mosslake Bridge 1863 I.McGahey



Followed by this on the watercourse of Liverpool and
Moss Lake
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Memorials_of_Liverpool_1000748465/261

Followed by this on Joseph Williamson and how they viewed him, back in the 19th century
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Memorials_of_Liverpool_1000748465/563

Whatever this man was, he must have spent a fortune on keeping the brick works in business.
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top

Moderator:  Mark 
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
The Green Eyed Girl
by granny
Yesterday at 10:33 PM
Paypal help
by venice
Yesterday at 08:59 PM
A Little Girl Gets A Kitten
by Uffda
Yesterday at 03:45 PM
Best Price for Scarpping my car
by Mike72
Yesterday at 01:02 PM
Brown Bin Collections Restarting Today 17th Jan
by fish5133
Yesterday at 09:04 AM
For Sale & Free
Wanted old cars spares or repairs
by vw_kyle
Yesterday at 01:08 PM
Astra 1.9 diesel 06
by lansyp
16th Jan 2017 8:47pm
viewsonic 22" monitor
by tommybarry
16th Jan 2017 3:39pm
Childs LFC peddle bike 5 - 8 Yrs
by Pete_M
13th Jan 2017 8:41pm
Projector
by madrob
13th Jan 2017 3:35pm
Featured Member
Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 4960
Newest Members
Collette63, shellylou, sgjrob, pjmeaneydog, jennynoonan
12182 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Mark (48)
New Wirral Info
Paypal help
by venice
Yesterday at 08:59 PM
Brown Bin Collections Restarting Today 17th Jan
by fish5133
Yesterday at 09:04 AM
Indian/Jazz fusion music Liverpool
by paxvobiscum
15th Jan 2017 11:19am
Chinese New Year Liverpool
by paxvobiscum
15th Jan 2017 11:08am
Asbestos shed removal
by TRFCKrisTRFC
13th Jan 2017 10:51pm
News : New Topics
Secretive mega shake-up of NHS could cost £15 mil
by RUDEBOX
16th Jan 2017 5:58pm
Lost Mobile Phone
by spinner1
15th Jan 2017 6:56pm
Found a mobile phone 14/01/2017 WALLASEY
by GaryFromWirral
15th Jan 2017 11:28am
Control of The Main Stream Media
by fish5133
15th Jan 2017 12:46am
Deportation Row
by granny
14th Jan 2017 12:23pm
New Enthusiast Forums
A Little Girl Gets A Kitten
by Uffda
Yesterday at 03:45 PM
Best Price for Scarpping my car
by Mike72
Yesterday at 01:02 PM
Diagnosis Route
by fish5133
Yesterday at 12:10 AM
RAC ,AA v Breakdown Recovery
by fish5133
16th Jan 2017 8:35pm
La La Land
by paxvobiscum
16th Jan 2017 2:52pm
(Views 24hrs)Trending Newest Topics
Paypal help 165
Best Price for Scarpping my car 154
Wanted old cars spares or repairs 120
A Little Girl Gets A Kitten 120
Brown Bin Collections Restarting Today 17th Jan 38
The Green Eyed Girl 35
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Wed 8:16am
Sunset Wed 4:29pm
Local Time Wed 3:40am
WikiWirral Can . . . .
Advertising Click me
To Advertise with
Wikiwirral Click Me