WikiWirral Wirral's Biggest Online Forum
Forum Stats
12133 Members
65 Forums
72378 Topics
976015 Posts
12 posts in the last 24hrs
Max Online: 7831 @ 8th Apr 2013 4:18pm
Who's Online - Click Me
71 registered (11kendo, 11 invisible), 1453 Guests and 183 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


(Views 7days)This Weeks Most Read
Wirral Globe 507
Pensby Hotel 492
Sports Personality Of The Year 462
Raspberry Pi in the classroom! 370
PC Repair needed 304
Name help 301
HMT Lancastria 294
Paul Nuttall Elected UKIP leader 187
Another Big Waste Fire in Liverpool. 178
54 plate renault clio 3rd brake light 152
New General Forums
Lib/dems rule the day
by JimmyG
2nd Dec 2016 10:59pm
Daft funny joke
by venice
2nd Dec 2016 5:54pm
We dont learn much.
by venice
1st Dec 2016 9:22pm
Freegle
by venice
1st Dec 2016 6:36pm
New Wirral History
Name help
by Paternoster21
3rd Dec 2016 8:03am
HMT Lancastria
by granny
2nd Dec 2016 11:38pm
Cubitts Holland and Hannen
by fish5133
27th Nov 2016 5:38pm
Fire station
by chris7777
22nd Nov 2016 12:24pm
Buy a house in Greasby for 12s a week - in 1935
by yoller
6th Oct 2016 6:56pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
fireworks on the Mersey last night
Hadlow train station
Topic Replies
Another Big Waste Fire in Liverpool.
by diggingdeeper
12:53 AM
Sports Personality Of The Year
by granny
09:46 PM
IPhone 4s 16gb £35
by anniebo28
12:45 PM
Name help
by fish5133
12:45 AM
Raspberry Pi in the classroom!
by Excoriator
3rd Dec 2016 11:04pm
live webcam from africa, a must see
by granny
3rd Dec 2016 9:39pm
Gymnastics coaches needed.
by margy
3rd Dec 2016 9:28pm
HMT Lancastria
by granny
3rd Dec 2016 2:06pm
Stanlow Abbey
by Kylix
3rd Dec 2016 2:05pm
December
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Wirral TUC Meeting re Update on Wallasey CLP Suspe
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:16pm
World Aids Day Event 2016. Liverpool
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:05pm
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#921205 - 13th Jan 2015 5:51pm Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13481
Loc: Wirral
William Gawin Herdman (also known as W. G. Herdman; 1805–1882) was an English author and painter, known for his scenes in the Liverpool area.
Herdman was a self-taught painter who started sketching in his early teens, documenting the city of Liverpool, making notes about how the city and its buildings were changing as the city grew. Herdman painted around 2,000 water colours of Liverpool scenes which were included in the book, “Herdman’s Liverpool” which appeared in several editions after his death in 1882. "Born in Liverpool in 1829, William married Elizabeth Munro in 1852 and had at least four children. He was a fine artist, but did not achieve the same level of success as his father, possibly lacking his self-belief and flair for promotion. His accuracy of representing locations can be confirmed with maps and Gore's street directory." Father and son painted numerous watercolours of Liverpool and Wirral, depicting the area from the late 18th century, often copying earlier works, through to the 1860s. They also record street furniture, people and fashions. W G and William Herdman recorded everything in a fast-changing Liverpool. As soon as they heard any area was to be cleared, they were out there painting. That's how we are so lucky to have illustrations of everything from St George's Hall to Cumberland Street's long-lost slums. Herdman's paintings provide a 'snapshot' of our region that rival's any modern photographic record.
In this article we have an excellent selection of Herdmans work, which was put together by Kevin Keegan, from 'Yo Liverpool Forum' , who provides the descriptions

http://www.liverpoolpicturebook.com/2013/01/WGHerdman.html

Click on the images to enlarge them



Edited by granny (13th Jan 2015 5:52pm)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
Wirral History Advertising
Click me for more Information......

WikiWirral Numbers : Between 150 and 200 New Members Every Month. With Over 3,500 unique visits and 35,000 Page Views each day. Average +500 Search Engines Daily and over 1,000,000 Million Page views a Month. Advertising from £20 . Click Me
#921363 - 14th Jan 2015 10:47am Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13481
Loc: Wirral
This is interesting, as Joseph Williamson died in 1840.After acquiring the land abut 1805 he first started to build houses. The vast amount of tunnelling in a relatively short period of time, without the use of mechanical diggers is quite remarkable. They are still finding items now as they continue to unearth. Picture by Herdman painted 18yrs after Williamson's death. So the tunnels must have just been abandoned. I wonder if they have found any skeletons down there.


Mason Street, Edgehill. Showing entrance to the excavations for
tunnels made by Joseph Williamson. 1858.





Edited by granny (14th Jan 2015 10:59am)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
#921364 - 14th Jan 2015 10:55am Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
snowhite Offline

Forum Veteran

Registered: 31st Jan 2014
Posts: 5535
Loc: Wirral
Great thread Granny.Thanks for sharing.

Top
#921377 - 14th Jan 2015 12:04pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
derekdwc Online   content


Forum Veteran

Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 4945
Loc: Birkenhead
granny this site with wirral paintings may interest you
click

Top
#921397 - 14th Jan 2015 2:55pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: derekdwc]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Thanks, Granny; he was an excellent architectural painter. I'd not heard of him.
_________________________
Carpe diem.

Top
#921399 - 14th Jan 2015 3:18pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
RUDEBOX Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Aug 2008
Posts: 18995
Loc: Bob Land
Great thread. Thanks for sharing.
_________________________
Mia Mabel


Top
#921418 - 14th Jan 2015 5:31pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: RUDEBOX]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
For anyone interested in a more recent pictorial record of Liverpool I can recommend "Ainscough's Liverpool",
ISBN 1 872568 64 5
A marvellous collections of photographs from 1966-68.
The very first picture is one of Central Station.
This is the cover.


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
2015-01-15 13-38-50_0076.jpg




Edited by chriskay (15th Jan 2015 2:23pm)
Edit Reason: Added pic.
_________________________
Carpe diem.

Top
#922945 - 22nd Jan 2015 8:04pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
bri445 Offline

Veteran

Registered: 27th Apr 2009
Posts: 676
Loc: Isle of Wight
Harold Hobbs' at Bebington and Eastham are my favourites, some just memorable, or at least recognisable.
Thanks for the links.

Top
#959459 - 27th Aug 2015 10:01pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13481
Loc: Wirral
Granny on a mission. Any points welcome.

With reference to the mention of the Williamson Tunnels , and the fact that there isn't a topic on the Williamson Tunnels (Liverpool) I thought my comments would be better placed on this page.

Anyway, having just watched a programme on BBC2 about the Romans and their building of Rome, having the most amazing tunnel type structures , still intact, for a vast sewage system, it brought to mind that maybe Joseph Williamson was trying to do the same thing.

The Williamson tunnels were built between 1810 and 1840 , in 1810 water closets were introduced and connection to the main sewer was confined to the wealthy people. Right hand column https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rZVF...840&f=false

Joseph Williamson being a philanthropist may have been building a sewer system for the people of Liverpool not just an aimless project to occupy the people .

Maybe the different levels could have been for the different levels of street. I think parts of Liverpool such as Toxteth were quite undulated at that time and I understand that some of the tunnels also headed towards the river. Nice exit for affluence.

The only thing that is questionable, is the fact that someone must have thought of this before but has obviously dismissed it. Do you think it possible ?
These pics have a similarity, Rome and Williamson's,Liverpool. I wonder if he ever went to Rome.

Rome

Rome

Williamson

Williamson


Edited by granny (27th Aug 2015 10:02pm)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
#959464 - 27th Aug 2015 10:31pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9549
Loc: Birkenhead
He didn't build tunnels, he built bridges.

The land was previously small quarries that were worthless as they were too expensive to infill. Williamson realised that if he bridged over the quarries he would create high value development land after paying very small amounts for the land.

Quarries in the past were often leased by the square foot, for this reason they were often small narrow holes but very deep, an example can be seen at Ben's Quarry in the woods at the back of Helsby hill.

I'm sure there is a thread somewhere when the WikiWirral Team went to help dig out the Williamson Tunnel's, a hard but very enjoyable experience.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top
#959470 - 27th Aug 2015 11:43pm Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: diggingdeeper]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13481
Loc: Wirral
The website constantly refers to him building and constructing tunnels. However, I understand what you are saying so my theory is completely wrong. Never mind , God loves a trier. pray
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
#959472 - 28th Aug 2015 12:44am Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9549
Loc: Birkenhead
The myth built up about his philanthropy because nobody could understand why else he built the "tunnels".

Various grants were available for the opening up of the tunnels because Williamson was believed to be a philanthropic patron of Liverpool.

However comprehensive research by Gerry Lucas and David Bridson came up with the following:-

Quote:
“We suggest that the tunnels were wildcat sandstone slot quarries providing dimension stone for some of the grand buildings of the expanding and rich mercantile Liverpool and that Williamson saw an opportunity to develop land on the hill by building a system of arches that covered the slots and then provided the foundation for urban housing. In effect, his business acumen produced one of the earliest and most profitable forms of quarry restorations.”


This was debated at Edge Hill University in 2012, I have no idea of the outcome but I assume their evidence was fairly compelling and their paper can be viewed HERE
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top
#959485 - 28th Aug 2015 9:43am Re: Herdman's Paintings of Liverpool 1805-1882 [Re: diggingdeeper]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13481
Loc: Wirral
Yes, I had read about the debate, but also read somewhere else that there was no conclusion .

This is of interest : Painting by Herdman of :

Inscribed on mount: "Grove Street and Oxford Street, The old Water-course from Mosslake."
Inscribed with signature and date in lower left corner of the sheet: "Mosslake Bridge 1863 I.McGahey



Followed by this on the watercourse of Liverpool and
Moss Lake
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Memorials_of_Liverpool_1000748465/261

Followed by this on Joseph Williamson and how they viewed him, back in the 19th century
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Memorials_of_Liverpool_1000748465/563

Whatever this man was, he must have spent a fortune on keeping the brick works in business.
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top

Moderator:  Mark 
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Another Big Waste Fire in Liverpool.
by Wally1
10:24 AM
Gymnastics coaches needed.
by margy
3rd Dec 2016 9:28pm
Name help
by Paternoster21
3rd Dec 2016 8:03am
HMT Lancastria
by granny
2nd Dec 2016 11:38pm
Wirral Globe
by locomotive
1st Dec 2016 6:25pm
For Sale & Free
IPhone 4s 16gb £35
by anniebo28
12:45 PM
Steam Train Money Box/Ornaments
by Tranquil
1st Dec 2016 11:32am
Childs LFC Bike 5 - 8 Yr old
by Pete_M
1st Dec 2016 1:10am
Cat related Collectables
by Tranquil
29th Nov 2016 4:48pm
original xbox
by vw_kyle
27th Nov 2016 8:17pm
Featured Member
Registered: 3rd Aug 2014
Posts: 1492
Newest Members
DavidSharpe, Grayo123456, uptonvillage, NobbyHunt, sam1512
12133 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Gymnastics coaches needed.
by margy
3rd Dec 2016 9:28pm
Wirral Globe
by locomotive
1st Dec 2016 6:25pm
Wirral TUC Meeting re Update on Wallasey CLP Suspe
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:16pm
World Aids Day Event 2016. Liverpool
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:05pm
A job. Company not named.
by venice
30th Nov 2016 6:30pm
News : New Topics
Another Big Waste Fire in Liverpool.
by Wally1
10:24 AM
Pensby Hotel
by granny
29th Nov 2016 6:39pm
Paul Nuttall Elected UKIP leader
by granny
28th Nov 2016 12:03pm
Disgusting surely not legal creamfields noise !!@
by svenlock68
27th Nov 2016 8:25am
Paying for EU Citizenship (Poll)
by diggingdeeper
26th Nov 2016 12:35pm
New Enthusiast Forums
54 plate renault clio 3rd brake light
by Mike72
1st Dec 2016 12:52pm
Raspberry Pi in the classroom!
by FelixCowden
30th Nov 2016 9:27pm
crop loss & water rationing in Dominican Republic
by FelixCowden
30th Nov 2016 8:46pm
PC Repair needed
by TudorBlue
29th Nov 2016 2:54pm
Sports Personality Of The Year
by fish5133
29th Nov 2016 12:32am
(Views 24hrs)Trending Newest Topics
Another Big Waste Fire in Liverpool. 178
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Mon 8:12am
Sunset Mon 3:54pm
Local Time Mon 4:13am
WikiWirral Can . . . .