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#876873 - 23rd May 2014 7:02pm Highfield Rd, Query.
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7827
Loc: tranmere
The map below is dated 1913, I can't confirm if that's absolutely correct. The properties marked red, according to the 1938 directory end with the number 145, nearest to Rock Lane West. If the date of the map is correct, the properties should be in the 1916 directory, there not. If anyone can assist with when the properties were built or with a map of a similar time period, I would be very grateful.

In the 1916 directory, the numbers on that side of the road end at 99.


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highfield.JPG


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#876886 - 23rd May 2014 7:56pm Re: Highfield Rd, Query. [Re: bert1]
derekdwc Online   content


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Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 4945
Loc: Birkenhead
1904-1910 MAP


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HIGHFIELD.jpg



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#876900 - 23rd May 2014 8:15pm Re: Highfield Rd, Query. [Re: derekdwc]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7827
Loc: tranmere
Cheers Derek,

IF that map is 1904/10, they should show on the 1911 census and they don't, clutching at straws perhaps, wondering if they originally had something to do with the railway and the address wasn't Highfield Rd at that time.
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#876918 - 23rd May 2014 9:13pm Re: Highfield Rd, Query. [Re: bert1]
TRANCENTRAL Offline

Green Meanie
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Registered: 10th Apr 2008
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Loc: Underground
Just found this pic on Facebook,Thanks to Brian shows an entrance on rock lane west ? Dated 1900


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10171713_10151807270984364_6062594221271857912_n.jpg


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#876967 - 24th May 2014 7:52am Re: Highfield Rd, Query. [Re: TRANCENTRAL]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7827
Loc: tranmere
Nice one TC,

Where Highfield Rd meets Rock Lane West, further down by the Lamp post, the pillars and opening are still there. The 1910 directory doesn't show whatever is behind those gates being in Rock Lane West.


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rlw1910.JPG


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#877146 - 24th May 2014 9:23pm Re: Highfield Rd, Query. [Re: bert1]
Norton Online   Reading

Smartchild

Registered: 29th Sep 2011
Posts: 589
Loc: Wallasey
Hi Bert, Not sure that this is a full answer but it might give you something more to go on.

On the 1876 map your houses are shown as being in Highfield North, which only extends as far north as the Ward boundry. The rest of the road is just a dotted outline. That is roughly east to west behind the houses on the south side of what is now Tennyson Av. There is no church yet and only allotment gardens further up on the east side.

On the 1899 map, the road is now called Highfield Road and goes all the way to Bedford road, with the hotel on the corner. Minor name changes have taken place to the side roads as they have grown.

By the time the 1912 map was published, the 'poets' avenues and St Annes's church had been built on the west side. On the east side, 22 pairs of semi's have been built on the allotments and extend from the hotel in the north, down to the ward boundry. This leaves a gap opposite the bottom of Browning Av. before reaching your original ones. The railway station has moved to the north side of Bedford road, allowing the track to be upgraded to four lanes, but not affecting the housing along here, as was suggested before.

By 1936, the map shows that five pairs of semi's have been built to fill the gap towards the houses you are asking about.
All the maps I've looked at were viewed on line at Old-Maps.com. Unfortunately, none of them have house numbers.

The 1901 Cencus reveals a little bit more. The enumerator has has gone from New Chester Road (Derby Park), Knowsley Rd, then Victoria Drive before starting on the low evens numbers in Rock Lane West, then Ravenswood Av, Highfield Cresent (evens) to 24 then Highfield South (both sides).

He then records Highfield Road. First house, no number recorded, is the residence of John J Welch ( a 39 year old shipyard manager from Kent) together with his family and servants. The next record is for No. 4 Highfield Road, the Sproat family (8 persons), then at No. 6 is the Hutchinsons (also 8 persons) then at No. 8 Eugen V M Siney's ? - a family of 10 plus 2 servants. Numbers 10 to 18 have only 13 persons living there in total. There are no odd numbers recorded at this point. He then moves on the record Queens Road, which is the next road to the east.

Also on the 1901 cencus, a different enumerator has worked his way along Bedford Road to Highfield Rd and notes the Convent with many nuns in it, and the Hotel with Agnes Lamb and her husband and servants. It is not numbered. He then continues along Bedford Road.

In the 1902 Kellys directory, Highfield Road, West Side, No.2 is shown as John Joseph Welsh, No.4 is Mrs. Sproat, No.6 is not noted, No. 8 is MacSwiney Lieut-Col. Eugene Valentine m.d surgeon. Spelling apart, this is the same as the cencus for 1901. The directory lists the east side, starting with the No.1, Rock Station Hotel, Mrs. Agnes Lamb. This is, of course, the north end / Bedford Road end of Highfield Road. The next entry is 21, 25, 27 29 and most (but not all) of the houses to No. 99, Mrs Wase. I can't find any of those names for 21 to 99 in the 1901 cencus.

As to the old photograph, I think we've seen it in Wiki before, so there might be a related topic. I think we are looking up Rock Lane West, towards Dacre Hill. The gates on the bottom left are the house on the corner of Victoria Drive. The house with the white walls, just over the railway bridge on the right will be the last one at the end of Highfield Road.

At the present time, using Google Earth, that house is No. 145 and the premises at the end of Victoria Drive are occupied by Wirral Tool Hire. The newer houses in Highfield Road, opposite Tennyson Av, are there on the 1936 and 1955 maps, but seem to have been replaced by two rows of terraced houses in a recent style, starting at number 123. (n.b. The 1955 map is numbered, but too small to read on line.)

From all this, I would conclude that the houses you are interested in were built before 1878 and currently, as you say, the one nearest Rock Lane West is 145, the same as 1938. The 1901 enumerator seems to have assumed that Highfield Rd started numbering from the Rock Lane end. The compiler of the directory has seen No.1 at the north end and assumed the low even numbers of the cencus to be on the west side, starting at the Bedford Road end. The 1902 Directory may have contained errors because of this and in the absence of general house numbering. In other words, No. 145 has been recorded as No.2, with the other few following suite. Some of these errors may have remained uncorrected into the 1912 edition. (I've not checked that one against the cencus, yet.)

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#877189 - 25th May 2014 8:58am Re: Highfield Rd, Query. [Re: Norton]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7827
Loc: tranmere
Thank you Norton for your excellent contribution, certainly does give me more to go on and will look at your suggestions in more detail. Cheers.
_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#877690 - 28th May 2014 7:44am Re: Highfield Rd, Query. [Re: bert1]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7827
Loc: tranmere
More musings in addition to Norton's contribution.
Using the 1796 map as a starting point, the thoroughfare between Bedford Dr and Rock Lane West is divided in to two, Highfield Rd and Highfield North, the properties we are concerned with are at that time in Highfield North, reiterating what Norton has already said.

Using census information, the area was also recorded as Highfield Park. In 1861, many properties were recorded as just Highfield.

By 1871, the particular piece of the area that has our interest is recorded as Highfield North.

One person who seemed to live in the properties over 20 years was Mrs Fanny Hutchinson, in 1881 and 1891 she lived in number 6 Highfield North, in 1901 she was enumerated at 6 Highfield Rd, thereafter it was known and recorded as Highfield Rd, census and directories.

It appears the change in road name occurred between 1891 and 1901.

The numbering of the properties and the change in the numbering is perhaps not down to an administrative error.
Generally here in Birkenhead, the numbering system of properties is moving away from the town hall, even numbers to the right, odd to the left.
The same system appears to be throughout England, taken from the town or village centre or town hall. I'm not sure when this system was introduced in this area, perhaps when the numbering was given to these properties, Bebington was used as the village centre and that's how the numbers appear to be on the wrong side of the road, just a thought.

What I can't find out is exactly when the number change over took place, it didn't happen to coincide with the road name changing, so when?
_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#877712 - 28th May 2014 9:25am Re: Highfield Rd, Query. [Re: bert1]
rocks Offline

Wiki Guide

Registered: 2nd Apr 2011
Posts: 6623
Loc: 3/4 of the way there....
im following this with interest as iv always called 143 Highfield Rd "my house" its the kind of place that "draws" you in, TC and I were going to go along to the auction last year to gain info and see if we could get inside the property but it was sold before the auction date and it still stands untouched and unoccupied today which makes me fearful for its future frown
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#877749 - 28th May 2014 1:50pm Re: Highfield Rd, Query. [Re: rocks]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7827
Loc: tranmere
I'm hoping the image below is 143, not a good view from google maps. If this is the original building showing on the 1796 map, making it nearly 220 years old, I would have thought it had a case for being listed?


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143.JPG


_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#877761 - 28th May 2014 2:23pm Re: Highfield Rd, Query. [Re: bert1]
TRANCENTRAL Offline

Green Meanie
Wiki Master

Registered: 10th Apr 2008
Posts: 13453
Loc: Underground
Yep mate that's the house. Just doing a catch up on this topic so much information coming out on this place it's amazing. Would like to thank everyone for the info so far and hopefully to come.
_________________________
Please do not adjust your mind, there is a slight problem with reality. #backscovered

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#877770 - 28th May 2014 3:00pm Re: Highfield Rd, Query. [Re: TRANCENTRAL]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7827
Loc: tranmere
A bit more evidence from the 1911 census. Shows what is now 145 was at one time number 2 and on the odd side.


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2 highfield rd.JPG


_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#877772 - 28th May 2014 3:17pm Re: Highfield Rd, Query. [Re: bert1]
Norton Online   Reading

Smartchild

Registered: 29th Sep 2011
Posts: 589
Loc: Wallasey
If you take a look at the Google Streetview from around the corner you will see the house number on the wheelie bins.

As to numbering from the centre of Bebington, I did have that in mind when I wrote the bit above. Since then, I remember reading about the location of the boundary in another topic. It concerned the houses at the bottom of Rock Lane East, beyond the by-pass. Perhaps someone might like to see if that gives us a clue.

Also, when the road was called Highfield North, Highfield South was (and still is) just across Rock Lane West from it. At present, I can't tell which way it was numbered, but again, it is another line of enquiry.

You're probably right about making a case to have the houses listed, but perversely, that could be a bad move. The owners, should they want to do any external work, would then subject to strict guidelines and expensive restoration work.

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#877776 - 28th May 2014 3:47pm Re: Highfield Rd, Query. [Re: Norton]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7827
Loc: tranmere
Lets hope he hasn't whizzed someone's bins wink

Above we have Mr Drake, Dentist, living at number 2, 1911 and 1938 directory living at 145.


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drake 145.JPG


_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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