Welcome to WikiWirral, sharing is what we do best.
Forum Stats
12224 Members
65 Forums
72741 Topics
980439 Posts
70 posts in the last 24hrs
Max Online: 7831 @ 8th Apr 2013 4:18pm
Who's Online - Click Me
76 registered (11kendo, 15 invisible), 1767 Guests and 185 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


(Views 7days)This Weeks Most Read
TS Indefatigable 468
Patio work 341
vet fees 305
Hezballah 260
Internet Explorer Not Working 258
Sea Shepherd 248
Seeking old pictures of Egerton Street area, Birkenhead 142
TV wall mount wanted. 106
Doris is on her way 83
Am I missing something ? 69
New General Forums
Wirral track renewal
by snowhite
02:42 PM
Ice in the 1800's
by granny
21st Feb 2017 9:47pm
Am I missing something ?
by dizdazdoz
16th Feb 2017 12:46pm
Valentines Day---Help From The Ladies
by fish5133
10th Feb 2017 7:35pm
New Wirral History
Seeking old pictures of Egerton Street area, Birkenhead
by yoller
19th Feb 2017 7:53pm
TS Indefatigable
by granny
18th Feb 2017 3:32pm
RIP : Chris Kay
by granny
31st Aug 2016 9:25am
Children's home on the Overchurch
by xleahx
26th Apr 2011 7:01pm
423 Archers, Wirral Mark Rake, Wirral, Merseyside
by derekdwc
13th Sep 2009 10:50pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
fireworks on the Mersey last night
Hadlow train station
Topic Replies
Doris is on her way
by diggingdeeper
03:05 AM
423 Archers, Wirral Mark Rake, Wirral, Merseyside
by diggingdeeper
03:02 AM
Changes to bin collections
by fish5133
01:21 AM
Internet Explorer Not Working
by fish5133
01:16 AM
Mk6 Golf TDI 1.6
by Cjoshea
11:06 PM
Rescued Animals.
by granny
10:50 PM
irish music entertainer for St Patrick's night
by kazaroo
03:07 PM
Tony Blair
by snowhite
02:20 PM
TV wall mount wanted.
by j_demo
21st Feb 2017 9:32pm
February
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Lion Salt Works/Weaver Hall Museum
by venice
19th Feb 2017 12:19pm
Wirral TUC Meeting re Update on Wallasey CLP Suspe
by RUDEBOX
13th Feb 2017 8:50pm
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#863642 - 10th Mar 2014 3:23pm Selling house to pay for care home costs.
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13862
Loc: Wirral

Has anyone got the correct information on the legalities of what happens to a persons home , if that person should be taken into care?
I understand that the home should be sold to pay for the costs, if it hasn't had transferred ownership to another, a number of years previously.
Does that apply to another who lives in the home , e.g. son daughter ?

Example: Mrs S. has a son who has lived with her his whole life and more recently cared for her during her ailing health. Now, that Mrs S.has been put into care, does the home still have to be sold to pay the care home fees, ( as it is his home too but not on any deeds), or will that not apply ?
The last part of the question is: If the owner who is going into care, has not made a will and has now been declared unfit to officially write one.....what happens then?
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
Law & Order : Advertising
Click me for more Information......

WikiWirral Numbers : Between 150 and 200 New Members Every Month. With Over 3,500 unique visits and 35,000 Page Views each day. Average +500 Search Engines Daily and over 1,000,000 Million Page views a Month. Advertising from £20 . Click Me
#863644 - 10th Mar 2014 3:42pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
yoller Online   content
Smartchild

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 455
Loc: Cheshire
You're best to get legal advice about this.

But as I understand it, if a relative over 60 is living in the house, it will not have to be sold. I think if someone is living in the house and they have acted as a carer, the same thing applies - it won't have to be sold.

You can get excellent free advice from a number of sources such as Age UK or the Citizens' Advice Bureau.

Top
#863645 - 10th Mar 2014 3:44pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
Salmon Online   content
Forum Addict

Registered: 8th Oct 2011
Posts: 1716
Loc: Wallasey
If somebody else lives in the house they do not have to sell it to pay care home fees.Lots of info here; http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/paying-your-residential-care-or-nursing-home-fees.

Not sure about the non will bit but perhaps intestacy rules would apply. A chat with Age UK would be very useful I imagine.

Top
#863655 - 10th Mar 2014 4:57pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: Salmon]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire


Just a word of caution: it probably doesn't make any difference, but that website is for Northern Ireland.
_________________________
Carpe diem.

Top
#863657 - 10th Mar 2014 5:12pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
Mark Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21011
Loc: Wirral
From what ive read up on this and if i have it right in my head the house can be sold. Its Mrs S Asset. And that's all they see the Asset's and Capital they can claw back.

If the Sons name was on the deeds or Half the house was in a Living Will (Which is stretching it) they would not force the Sale of the house. But when Mrs Passes then the Share of the House goes to probate and then i think they can claim back the fees or balance owed.

The whole system stinks its wrong wrong wrong.
And for every corner you turn they charge the earth.

An Example of the same situation on paper but still wrong.

Mr & Mrs X meet fall in love.
Buy a house, but because this is in the 60's Mr X is the bread winner and is the only name on the mortgage. Guess what happens when Mr X is taken into care all them years later ? Yes they want to sell the house to pay the care fees.

What i will say there does seem to be variation per council which should no longer be the case so what im trying to say is that until you get the professional advice take it all with a pinch of salt.

I do think that at best the son may stay there until Mrs S Dies and then will be homeless himself afterwards and nothing to show for it.

The clock starts ticking 12wks after admission to hospital or home and then the bills start. And at about £395 per week or £1,580 per 4 wks any Assets tumble.

Offset with Income.

DWP SP Pension £130 ish . . .
DWP AA £79 -->> £ Nothing (Attendance Allowance)
Mrs S may have Private Pension

Its no way enough to cover any fees but slows the tide.
They stop taking the money when the Assets fall below £23,250 and No less than £14,250

Example
if your Assets = + £23,250 this is Full Charge.
if your Assets = £23,000 then you pay £36 per week and not £395
if your Assets = £14,250 then you pay £1 per week and not £395
If your Assets = £14,000 then you pay nothing but to put it bluntly you have been raped well and truly.

What you have not said is if the Son has Power of Attorney ?
If not then its not going to be easy.

Drop me a pm if you need more information.
Ive pretty much been going through this for the last 2 yrs
Not the property but capital and assets gone !


Edited by Mark (10th Mar 2014 6:26pm)
Edit Reason: My god dam spelling lol
_________________________
My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile

Top
#863658 - 10th Mar 2014 5:15pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
Mark Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21011
Loc: Wirral
Those numbers of £23,250 are up for review April so they could go up or down. . . .
_________________________
My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile

Top
#863660 - 10th Mar 2014 5:19pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
Mark Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21011
Loc: Wirral
This is a copy and paste i got from Northumbria Council

charges for living in a care home (from 8/4/2013)


* What about my house?
If you need to live permanently in a care home, the value of your house will be treated as part of your savings, once you have been a permanent resident for more than twelve weeks. We will make allowance for the cost of selling your house, and any outstanding mortgage charges against it. (The value of your home will not be taken into account if you are a temporary resident, even if you are in the home for more than twelve weeks).
If you do not wish to sell your home now, or if you have difficulty doing so, we can delay asking for part of the charge until you decide to sell it (should you die, the fees will have to be paid then). The financial assessment and benefits officer who sees you will be able to provide further information about this option.


* What about my spouse, partner or carer?
There are special rules to protect the position of other people who are dependent on you. They affect the way we treat your income and your house.
If you have an occupational pension, 50% of this can be transferred to your spouse or partner and not included in the financial assessment. The Financial Assessment and Benefits Officer who sees you can give advice about whether your spouse would benefit from this (for some people it adversely affects benefit payments).
We will ignore the value of your house when working out charges if your partner is still living there, or a relative who is over 60 or who is incapacitated. We may do the same in other special circumstances – for instance if someone lives there who gave up their own home in order to look after you.
_________________________
My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile

Top
#863661 - 10th Mar 2014 5:23pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
Mark Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21011
Loc: Wirral
Guidance
Charging for Residential Accommodation Guide (CRAG) 2011

Charging for Residential Accommodation Guide (CRAG) provides guidance to local authorities on how to interpret and apply the regulations.

Click me

Its up for review in April.
But this all i could find when they told me to search for CRAG 2013 so it must not have changed for those years. ?
_________________________
My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile

Top
#863679 - 10th Mar 2014 7:06pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
chris58 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 15th Mar 2009
Posts: 308
Loc: chris58
My mum and dad made my sister and i tenants in common so when either one of them passed away their half of the property came to my sister and i so only half of the house could be taken into consideration if the surviving spouse needed care. This was only done 12 months before they both passed away. Done through a solicitor, as it needed them to make new wills. We didnt end up in the situation of either of them going into a home.

Top
#863711 - 10th Mar 2014 8:34pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: chris58]
Moonstar Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 2nd Jul 2011
Posts: 1240
Loc: Wirral
I am not 100% certain about this but if the person in the care home is ill the NHS are responsible.

Someone else will know better but I do know that a lot of people are claiming back fees that have been taken due to this because the NHS denied liability.

Also, because those in power keep moving the goal posts it would be wise to seek out a specialist in this area. I think the Law Society could advise you as to such a person in your area.

Top
#863732 - 10th Mar 2014 10:00pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: Moonstar]
justice Offline
Member

Registered: 19th Aug 2013
Posts: 89
Loc: Wallasey
Nobody has to sell their home all they have to do is pay the fees.So if family want to rent it out and pay the fees through the rent that is fine. Just say that you are self funding.
Most important is to arrange things well before you are likely to need residential or nursing care.

Top
#863777 - 11th Mar 2014 9:01am Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13862
Loc: Wirral
Many thanks to all the contributions and advice on this. It does appear to be a minefield but your informed comments are all very helpful with pointers that can be passed on. Little knowledge can be the result of some things being overlooked.
Undoubtedly, I think legal advice is of greatest importance in this situation, but being forearmed with some information on possibilities, might be helpful in these circumstances.
Mark, that was really helpful, thanks. Also the link posted by Salmon, if it is the same in England.

A young adult is involved here, with no living relatives to ask for advice.


Edited by granny (11th Mar 2014 9:04am)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
#863979 - 11th Mar 2014 10:08pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
sunnyside Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 4th Apr 2010
Posts: 40464
Loc: wirral
Renting the house out is a good idea but fees for nursing homes are around £500-£600 per week, also new law now which says if you rent out now and do so for over 18months then you are liable for capital gains when you sell, which are considerable,so unless you are talking about higher bracket rental property then you will have a big shortfall to top up.

Top
#864070 - 12th Mar 2014 3:01pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: sunnyside]
rossie Offline
Addict

Registered: 7th Oct 2011
Posts: 269
Loc: moreton
Re Sunnyside :Capital Gains Main residence relief if available up to the point of renting property out.Also you can claim annual exemption so unless the person is in care for a long time capital gains is not likely to be an issue.
Agree it would have to be a big rent to cover nursing home fees.

Top
#864071 - 12th Mar 2014 3:16pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2560
Loc: Wirral
Just another point. It doesnt work giving your property to your son or daughter to avoid 'owning' a house if and when you come to need a nursing home . The council can claw back the money at any time-- people think they are safe if they give it away a few years before, but they're not any more. Councils are desperate , and are allowed to delve back without a time restriction. There will of course be differences between different councils as to how far back whey will try for.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Mod 
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Doris is on her way
by granny
08:43 PM
irish music entertainer for St Patrick's night
by kazaroo
03:07 PM
Internet Explorer Not Working
by fish5133
12:25 AM
vet fees
by eggandchips
20th Feb 2017 12:01am
Seeking old pictures of Egerton Street area, Birkenhead
by yoller
19th Feb 2017 7:53pm
For Sale & Free
Mk6 Golf TDI 1.6
by Cjoshea
11:05 PM
TV wall mount wanted.
by j_demo
21st Feb 2017 7:53pm
Samick Greg Bennett UK50 Ukulele
by j_demo
20th Feb 2017 9:24pm
2x Brit Floyd tickets 3rd March City entrance
by ambersmum
20th Feb 2017 6:35pm
Sherwood 2x30W amp with phono - £35; other hifi
by montyz
20th Feb 2017 4:09pm
Featured Member
Registered: 7th Dec 2010
Posts: 372
Newest Members
raybb, CliveK, vonny, Vkj530, SunsetP
12224 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Lion Salt Works/Weaver Hall Museum
by paxvobiscum
18th Feb 2017 9:19pm
Patio work
by steamfan
18th Feb 2017 3:45pm
Ceiling needs smoothing
by yr20405
15th Feb 2017 1:52am
Info? Bill Dobson, Photographer, Martins Bank
by diggingdeeper
13th Feb 2017 12:10pm
War Museum
by missmahjong
12th Feb 2017 1:24pm
News : New Topics
Doris is on her way
by granny
08:43 PM
Hezballah
by venice
17th Feb 2017 11:15am
On-street parking charges dropped
by oldpm01
15th Feb 2017 9:10am
Thousands raised for children of cancer couple.
by fish5133
13th Feb 2017 3:01pm
Lost ladies Swarovski watch
by spider
13th Feb 2017 10:36am
New Enthusiast Forums
irish music entertainer for St Patrick's night
by kazaroo
03:07 PM
Internet Explorer Not Working
by fish5133
12:25 AM
vet fees
by eggandchips
20th Feb 2017 12:01am
Sea Shepherd
by venice
16th Feb 2017 1:06pm
Sounds of the Sixties
by paxvobiscum
11th Feb 2017 8:53pm
(Views 24hrs)Trending Newest Topics
Doris is on her way 83
irish music entertainer for St Patrick's night 47
Wirral track renewal 16
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Thu 7:11am
Sunset Thu 5:39pm
Local Time Thu 4:06am
WikiWirral Can . . . .