WikiWirral Wirral's Biggest Online Forum
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,352
Posts1,033,280
Members14,560
Most Online16,551
Feb 2nd, 2024
Who's Online Now
12 members (ArranGirl13, 3 invisible), 7,926 guests, and 465 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,269
granny 17,788
_Ste_ 16,345
Newest Members
Kalena1962, rattus, Lisrush, Emotecreative, ArranGirl13
14,560 Registered Users
New General Forums
New Wirral History
Tall Brick Chimneys
by diggingdeeper - 16th Mar 2024 11:56am
D.I.Y. / Building Shop
by mharford91 - 3rd Mar 2024 8:53pm
1970's Murder in Central Park, Wallasey
by cutespam - 4th Aug 2018 10:28am
Old Hall in Higher Bebington
by Rhoobarb - 25th May 2010 5:55pm
Oleo Works
by Ducko - 14th May 2008 3:09pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
granny 14
casper 13
bri445 4
Topic Replies
Facial recognition coming in supermarkets?
by diggingdeeper - 27th Mar 2024 3:50pm
Bolts at Bebington Road
by diggingdeeper - 27th Mar 2024 2:33am
Hot Spot Chippie Broadway
by Excoriator - 26th Mar 2024 7:57pm
Tall Brick Chimneys
by diggingdeeper - 26th Mar 2024 5:43pm
Lost river (Well, brook really)
by diggingdeeper - 26th Mar 2024 3:09am
Old Hall in Higher Bebington
by diggingdeeper - 24th Mar 2024 5:58pm
Netflix 3 Body Problem.
by BultacoAstro - 22nd Mar 2024 8:04am
Wisper electric bike. 36v .
by Dilly - 21st Mar 2024 7:36pm
This is Elvis
by GingerTom - 21st Mar 2024 9:27am
March
M T W T F S S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
cools 1
Kylix 1
Top Likes Received
bert1 14
Mark 4
granny 3
casper 3
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#850460 14th Jan 2014 10:15pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 720
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 720
Just watching the news about Dave Lee Travis, Rolf Harris, William Roache et al. Is it just me who believes that if they are all found not guilty of their alleged charges, then the women who brought the charges against them should be named?
I think it's grossly unfair, thinking back to the case with Kevin LeVell, that he had to endure the whole saga which likely ruined his life for many months (and probably still is) and yet the girl who pressed charges gets away without any recourse.

Google Ads
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,518
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,518
Just because a jury clears someone it does not mean they are totally 100% innocent, there a number of reasons why a jury finds someone not guilty, perhaps the alleged victim can not remember all details, maybe because there head is so screwed up after what happened to them, there mind blocks out certain parts.

And you say name them.

Here is a scenario for you:

Your walking down the street and you are dragged in the bushes and assaulted, but you go home and get showered washing vital evidence away, you go to the police and report it after, (it goes without saying the police will believe you) they go and arrest someone for it, (you do not want your name published) which is fair enough.
Now in court you can not remember much about the night as thinking about it makes you depressed and causes you emotional pain, and also you washed vital evidence away, the jury clear this person.

So you agree that your name should be published in the papers and the news branding you a lier.

I think not.

And am sorry but if there was a prize for the most stupid idea
then you have just won 1st prize.




Last edited by Mark; 15th Jan 2014 10:23am. Reason: Image Removed
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,961
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,961
Taking the above into account why should the accused be named before the jury finds them guilty?
e.g.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...o-face-her-victim-in-court-29733885.html

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Lets not forget that Legal Aid has now gone....


Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Originally Posted by Willo_
Just because a jury clears someone it does not mean they are totally 100% innocent, there a number of reasons why a jury finds someone not guilty, perhaps the alleged victim can not remember all details, maybe because there head is so screwed up after what happened to them, there mind blocks out certain parts.

And you say name them.

Here is a scenario for you:

Your walking down the street and you are dragged in the bushes and assaulted, but you go home and get showered washing vital evidence away, you go to the police and report it after, (it goes without saying the police will believe you) they go and arrest someone for it, (you do not want your name published) which is fair enough.
Now in court you can not remember much about the night as thinking about it makes you depressed and causes you emotional pain, and also you washed vital evidence away, the jury clear this person.

So you agree that your name should be published in the papers and the news branding you a lier.

I think not.

And am sorry but if there was a prize for the most stupid idea
then you have just won 1st prize.



withthat

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by Salmon
Taking the above into account why should the accused be named before the jury finds them guilty?
e.g.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...o-face-her-victim-in-court-29733885.html


Agreed, and with regard to naming accusers, that is also a very sensitive issue. I don't think they should be named in these cases, but maybe the accuser should be liable to pay some compensation, if the accused is found innocent.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
What if the accused can afford to buy a top rate lawyer and the survivor/ victim cannot?

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by RUDEBOX
What if the accused can afford to buy a top rate lawyer and the survivor/ victim cannot?


What if the accused can't and the accuser can ? That would be a more serious issue. smile


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by RUDEBOX
What if the accused can afford to buy a top rate lawyer and the survivor/ victim cannot?


What if the accused can't and the accuser can ? That would be a more serious issue. smile
Fair point. smile Well, not 'more serious' but equally unfair.

Last edited by RUDEBOX; 15th Jan 2014 12:21am.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,631
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,631
How about one of the foundation stones of the British legal system, Innocent Until PROVEN Guilty means that no one can report on a case (with names) until the case is over.

If they are found Guilty, they can be named.

If they are found Not Guilty, they can't.

Forget all this rubbish about how if the names are published other victims could come forward, if the case was strong enough to win (and if it isn't legally it shouldn't be proceeded with anyway) then let it stand on its own feet.

Lives can be ruined FOREVER with false accusations, and some lies never die.

I don't think that accusers should have to pay the accused money if they are found Not Guilty, but I do think that any record check for any future prosecutions should show the history of any previous allegations made by the accusers.

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Whatever happened to 'Innocent until proven guilty'?

The news is full of alleged offenders- was I asleep when the Law changed? Has it changed,even?

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 37
Newbeee
Offline
Newbeee
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 37
They are named so others can come forward.

Without them being named, evidence might not be found.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
I don't think the law has changed, I think its the reporters using the words "Reportedly" and "allegedly" gets into the media and then it spreads.

But then thinking about it we always read Mr x has been remanded in custody until the court date charged with xxx. That gets into the news because you will have reporters in the courts posting such. I think there are even court listings in the buildings so you know who is in what court.

Innocent until proven guilty is all about the court room. IMO.

isn't that why it got to the point with the newspapers to sign up to a code of conduct to self police as it was all getting out of hand.

More should be done to protect the innocent, in certain cases, but with the names listed above, the media gave the victims the strength to come forward.

So i don't think there is one answer to fit all situations.

My thoughts.

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,283
Likes: 3
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,283
Likes: 3
I was reading about this on another forum and someone brought up Peter Adamson - Len Fairclough from Corrie.

Everyone remembers the accusations, but what they don't remember is that he was cleared.

Even his obituary continued to tar and taint him:

Street's shamed Len Fairclough dies
Disgraced Coronation Street star Peter Adamson - who played womaniser Len Fairclough in the soap - has died a penniless recluse.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-95683/Streets-shamed-Len-Fairclough-dies.html

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
That is So Sad.
From a Screen Idol to Nobody.

I didn't even realise he had been cleared.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Facial recognition coming in supermarkets?
by Excoriator - 27th Mar 2024 10:52am
Hot Spot Chippie Broadway
by Excoriator - 26th Mar 2024 7:57pm
Bolts at Bebington Road
by Excoriator - 23rd Mar 2024 9:48am
Netflix 3 Body Problem.
by BultacoAstro - 22nd Mar 2024 8:04am
Tall Brick Chimneys
by diggingdeeper - 16th Mar 2024 11:56am
For Sale & Free
Wisper electric bike. 36v .
by Dilly - 21st Mar 2024 7:36pm
This is Elvis
by GingerTom - 17th Mar 2024 2:37pm
Member Spotlight
KevinFinity
KevinFinity
Wirral
Posts: 2,354
Joined: April 2009
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
New Wirral Info
Facial recognition coming in supermarkets?
by Excoriator - 27th Mar 2024 10:52am
Hot Spot Chippie Broadway
by Excoriator - 26th Mar 2024 7:57pm
Bolts at Bebington Road
by Excoriator - 23rd Mar 2024 9:48am
Get your Money Tree ready
by keef666 - 22nd Mar 2023 12:27pm
Restaurant/pub with outdoor seating - Bromborough
by CarterUSM - 7th Aug 2020 7:59pm
News : New Topics
Gaza
by diggingdeeper - 29th Oct 2023 9:28am
Lost river (Well, brook really)
by Excoriator - 10th Sep 2019 8:50am
New Enthusiast Forums
Netflix 3 Body Problem.
by BultacoAstro - 22nd Mar 2024 8:04am
Xbox
by TudorBlue - 3rd Mar 2024 8:48pm
Wiper mechanism needed
by Peter0787 - 20th Feb 2024 4:07pm
Popular Topics(Views)
5,068,665 WIKI WALK CHAT
4,013,778 Spotted!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5