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There is one who has shown his disapproval from within the Labour Party and he is the multi-millionaire,Lord Sainsbury, who bank rolled the Labour Party.


Miliband branded “average” by Lord Sainsbury

“The multimillionaire businessman and philanthropist who has given more than £12 million to the Labour Party has branded Ed Miliband an “average” politician, with an uninspiring political vision. In a rare interview, Lord Sainsbury of Turville, who bankrolled Labour through the Blair and Brown years, told The Times that he had no intention of donating to the party again.” - The Times(£)

My belief is that all but one, of the leaders of political parties in recent years are far too wet behind the ears when they come to the front,they don't even understand the basic meaning of 'hunger'. All of them.... but the trade unions have done nothing and do nothing until it suits them to gain notariety, plus the fact that most of the unions are infiltrated by 'militant tendencies' and that's their pitfall. The people who remember,do NOT want a repeat of 1970's/80's .It achieved nothing, and for those who can't remember, in my opinion, should shut up!

What you mean frank is that if it doesn't affect you personally then its okay,go with the flow typical Tory ethos look after yourself trample over those that fall then blame it on somebody else.You actually parrot your hero's words as in "demand every thing you have not earned", I would hazard a guess that you owned or own a business or are/were self employed and believe that the world owes you a living because you are a striver (allegedly),glad I'am not in a lifeboat with you.

It's no use locking the stable door after the horse has bolted.
If no-one protested and waited until the next election the party that was in power could get away with all sorts of things that the average man in the street wouldn't accept as fair to all
the people in the UK.
If you looked up the membership of the parties you'll see that they are only a fraction of the populace and that your representatives to stand for election are chosen by a small number at the top in them.
As far as I'm concerned most politicians, trade union leaders and big private enterprise are only in it for what they can get out of it (be it power or wealth)

Casper, I think you are wrong to have that point of view. Many a person has come from difficult backgrounds, and poverty to make themselves and others a better life. If in the process they change their political persuassions, that is their choice. You surely cannot decry and punish anyone who has achieved in such a manner. That takes inspiration away from someitmes those who have more vision, than others who have a more lucrative upbringing.

I was there granny,you will never see a return to the 70's and 80's because there is no will for people to stand up for themselves,the tory anti trade union legislation made sure of that,and of course they are not afraid to use the police or army to reinforce it, the miners strike has been well researched and documented and all agree that the police had been given carte blanche to smash the strike at any cost, trumped up charges illegal stop and search the list is endless if a government of any party are prepared to go to those lengths then be afraid for the alleged freedom and democracy we believe we have.

The trouble was that it wasn't just the miners. NHS, Teachers, Transport, , Council Workers,inc. Refuse collections, Grave Diggers. the list was endless.
What if the Banks had gone on strike too.???
I don't believe the many want unrest anymore Casper. Life is too serious without that intervention , these days. People can protest in anyway if they wish, that has not been taken away from them. There was a big enough turn out against the imminent war in Iraq, but nobody of importance heard, did they?

Think I'm going to start a protest group for Grannies. There's a lot of power behind us!

I was just using the miners strike as an example of how far the government of the day went to smash the trade unions, I have been on the end of a police baton for no other reason than standing at a demonstration something which you say we are allowed to do, we were actually stood behind railings and the police faced us all the while stabbing through the railings with their batons uncalled for and needless, I think we all need to stand up for what we believe in wether it be library closures, ban the bomb or the NHS for the sake of our grandchildren.

I don't think some people on this forum grasp the level of debt we owe to Trade Unions, or should I say, a Union of people, the mention of Trade has a red mist descending and immediately the old propaganda kicks in, they forget the unions are made up of the very people of this country who they live and mix with every day.
All they see is past confrontations and bring that to the fore, regardless to whom was at fault. They can't accept that members of a union have the right to protest in any way they think fit, if its withdrawal of Labour, its done democratically, or do some think the people of this country who are members of a union are so thick, they allow themselves to be dictated to. I've always found it strange that when a trade union protests in whatever manner they think fit, some opponents are up in arms and yet they find it completely acceptable for a business to move abroad,sacking all, throw people on the scrapeheap or reduce their pay, change their working conditions and nothing is said, not only that but they beleive no protest should be allowed or made.

Well, the 'baton brigade' need to be controlled by their leaders, and your example is the very reason why unrest should not be encouraged. It's all very well for people to call for action from the members of whatever group, but they are not the ones standing at the front. It's like a game of chess, exactly the same as the political parties. Pawns to the front and Leaders at the back, shouting the score. I do understand what you say Casper and yes we shoudn't be lying back, but until a situation arises that is of mammoth proportions, and effects the majority, then I don't believe many will respond to the calls. Teachers strike last week... how many teachers went out to support the rally? Probably had a nice day relaxing in the hope that others would do it for them.
My daughter stayed up, had a few drinks and relished the fact she didn't have to get up in the morning.Basically...not interested.

We can't very well strike about businesses moving abroad Bert! What I will say, is that WMBC were guilty of virtually same things you list.There was plenty said and Union was brought in.Hey Presto! they ran away again and did f. all, for those that needed them, because they were in cahoots with a labour council.They back each other up, everytime and they should be independant.

Never said Granny "we should go on strike when businesses move abroad" read again.

Look at the history and overall picture of what Trade Unionism has achieved for the people of this country and try not to pick out sections that suit your obvious dislike and bias.

Anyway, onward and upward with your Granny protesters.

Granny we already have a situation of mammoth proportions food banks a crumbling health service old people dying of the cold we had more old people die of hypothermia in one year than armed forces casualties in the whole of the Afghanistan conflict and this from one of the richest countries in the world,as to your daughter the only way she will learn is when her indifference costs her job but its to late then,I have heard it all before about trade unions but those that bleat the loudest about them don't mind accepting the benefits that are won for them at the cost from others.

Forked toungue Bert...

The obvious dislike and bias is fact. So there's none so clear as fact, is there Bert? Neither was there one isolated case.
We know what the Trade Unions have achieved in this country and we know what the Trade Unions have failed in too.

The Gregarious Grands.... you too can join Bert, there are simple rules, and a couple of openings for male members.How could Grannies alone, possibly manage to think for themselves?

Yes Casper, and do you know what annoys me about those facts (not you) Who do people think is providing for the foodbanks?The church congregations e.g. pensioners provide a huge amount .Go to any church on Wirral and there's a box to throw your donations in. Who uses their petrol money to go to visit the sick and the vulnerble pensioners, yes, the other pensioners.Who commits an amount of money every month through the church to help Christian charities, yes the pensioners.The reason I say 'pensioners' in all of this is because a large proportion of congregation is made up of pensioners. They don't complain, everyone else uses them as a voice for their own cause. Shame on them.

Well said granny its about the old community spirit, because the older generation know what it is to go without that why they put themselves out,it warms the heart to see people stopping to help in situations or being courteous when driving instead of the distorted faces and the two fingers or the fist but that's a sign of the me me me society.