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#726863 - 20th Sep 2012 11:55pm Romans In Wirral
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13652
Loc: Wirral
With evidence of human occupation in Wirral dating back to 7000BC, and more recently of Roman occupation about 70AD. prior to the Noresmen and Vikings.
It would be interesting to find out more about the Romans whilst they were here, how long they were here for and what made them withdraw etc. They certainly didn't come quietly and I wonder if many stayed behind, as I imagine the original native population would have been almost wiped out.
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#727025 - 21st Sep 2012 2:27pm Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: granny]
Spellbinder Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10th Jun 2011
Posts: 115
Loc: Home Counties
Originally Posted By: granny
With evidence of human occupation in Wirral dating back to 7000BC, and more recently of Roman occupation about 70AD. prior to the Noresmen and Vikings.
It would be interesting to find out more about the Romans whilst they were here, how long they were here for and what made them withdraw etc. They certainly didn't come quietly and I wonder if many stayed behind, as I imagine the original native population would have been almost wiped out.


The Romans withdrew from the area because they were fed up of having their chariot hub-caps nicked.

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#727102 - 21st Sep 2012 6:46pm Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: Spellbinder]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13652
Loc: Wirral
raftl

Not the answer I expected Spellbinder..

If they were here for about 400 years, I can't understand how they would one day say, 'come on, we're going home now' because Britain would have been home for many by then and possibly they had inter-marriage with the Britons. Also, it is stated that a word square was found in the Roman Settlement of Manchester dated to the 2nd century.Inscription is an anagram of Paster Noster ,which means the Lord's Prayer, so maybe they brought Christianity to Britain, instead of hub-caps.
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#727106 - 21st Sep 2012 7:10pm Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: granny]
Alexds86 Offline
Beginner

Registered: 30th Dec 2011
Posts: 9
Loc: Tranmere
The romans left britain in the early 5th century AD due to europe being overun by barbarian tribes i.e visgoths, vandals, franks and the more well known huns. They left britain to fend for itself, while what remained of the army went to face the barbarians. In there absence britain was attacked by numerus saxon tribes i.e jutes and angles, the latter tribe is where england gets its name from (angleland. As for christianity. It was brought here by the romans around the 3rd or 4th century AD. The romans in wirral it it is believed had a port at meols as many artifacts have been found. I have found a link which i will post shortly.

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#727114 - 21st Sep 2012 7:36pm Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: granny]
Archaeo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 8th Feb 2009
Posts: 349
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: granny
raftl

Not the answer I expected Spellbinder..

If they were here for about 400 years, I can't understand how they would one day say, 'come on, we're going home now' because Britain would have been home for many by then.


You've kind of answered your own question here! The concept of the Romans packing up, going home and turning the light off on the way out is an antiquated idea. Many scholars now see the end of Roman Britain as a gradual decline as opposed to a dramatic collapse.

The problem lies in what we mean by the term 'Roman' - it encompasses so much and by the 4th century meant a hell of a lot more than someone from Rome, indeed the majority of Roman citizens would most never have heard of Rome! For instance, in the Confessions of St Patrick, we learn that Patrick thought of himself as Roman as anyone despite being someone from Northern Britain (most likely) and never stepping foot out of his own front door until his ventures into Ireland.

For Wirral, the first evidence for Roman interaction comes at least 100 years before the Claudian invasion of AD43. Numerous coins from Meols suggest trade with the Roman World at least 100 years before this which may perhaps be linked with the Cheshire salt trade. With the founding of Chester in approx AD78, Meols boomed as a trading centre, and it seems that Wirral may also have been home to craftsmen making distinct jewellery (known as the Wirral-type Brooch) and acting as a deep-water port for Chester.

Indications of further Roman settlement have been found in Irby where an Iron Age farmstead seems to have continued throughout the Roman period, and of course Leasowe Man (the oldest human remains found in Wirral) is of Roman date, though not necessarily a Roman!

Christianity was indeed a Roman introduction to Britain, but was at first no more than an eastern mystery cult to rival the numerous others such as those in honour of Bacchus, Mithras, Isis etc. Christianity first developed in towns (indeed, the term 'pagan' orignally meant someone who simply lived outside of a town) and so Chester is likely to have been an early Christian centre. The first British martyrs to be killed were called Julius and Aaron were meant to have been executed in Caerleon in Wales, but this is just as likely to have been in Chester which was also known as Caerleon (City of the Legions.

The most intriguing place-name in Wirral (and likely the oldest) is that of Landican which seems to represent a prWelsh rendering of Llan Tegan (Church enclosure of St Tegan) which would represent a very early post-Roman place-name and therefore suggestive of an early foundation church. Similarly the dedication of St. Hilary in Wallasey is incredibly rare and may point to an even earlier foundation of Christianity on the Island of the Britons (Wallas - British).

The Anglo-Saxon incursions into Britain in the 4-6th centuries forced Christian communities to the fringes of Britain, hence why our oldest Christian sites are found in Wales, Cornwall, Scotland, etc. Wirral sits firmly in this 'zone' and as such plays a part in this amazing story of an age that was anything but dark. Recent archaeological evidence is piecing some of these pictures back together so hopefully Wirral place in the Roman world will soon be able to be retold in more detail.

Just my 2 pence worth wink


Edited by Archaeo (21st Sep 2012 7:38pm)

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#727115 - 21st Sep 2012 7:51pm Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: granny]
Alexds86 Offline
Beginner

Registered: 30th Dec 2011
Posts: 9
Loc: Tranmere
try this link a little bit about the speculated port in meols. http://www.oldwirral.com/meols_setantiorum.html

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#727150 - 21st Sep 2012 10:06pm Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: Alexds86]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13652
Loc: Wirral
Thanks for your replies Alexds and Archaeo. Much appreciated and very interesting.
I find the Romans and the History at that time really interesting. Unfortunately when doing a bit of research everything seems to get somewhat confusing(for myself). Your info is very clear and straight forward.
Learning that Leasowe Man is the only Roman skeleton to have been found in the Merseyside area, made me wonder if that would be related to the fact that in Rome, pre-Christianity,the Romans always cremated their dead. Which would also explain why there were never any skeletons found of the Gladiators etc.
With that in mind, our Leasowe Man must have met with an accident . I bet there are a few more of them buried in the river bed of the Dee !!
Another interesting bit of info which I recently learnt, was in the book of Acts.The last two chapters relate the journey of Paul, who had been imprisoned and was being transported back to Rome from Jerusalem. He was probably about 72yrs of age. They had a dreadful passage which is told by Luke and they were travelling with many more prisoners apart from others on an Egyptian ship. There were 276 onboard the ship, which would indicate they were pretty large, sea going vessels in those days. Plus the only navigation they used was the stars and if the weather was cloudy or bad, they got a bit lost. Amazing people and we think we are smart!!

I am off for a couple of days, so should you make anymore posts and don't get a reply, it's not that you are being ignored.


Edited by granny (21st Sep 2012 10:11pm)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#727153 - 21st Sep 2012 10:34pm Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: granny]
ghostly1 Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 25th Nov 2007
Posts: 404
Loc: Liscard
I grew up in Greasby and the Schools have a Roman Road running parrellel to its fields also I was always told the Copse woodland was a Roman Burial Ground any further info to clarify this??


Edited by ghostly1 (21st Sep 2012 10:35pm)

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#727154 - 21st Sep 2012 10:34pm Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: granny]
Moonstar Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 2nd Jul 2011
Posts: 1240
Loc: Wirral
And there was me thinking we were having an invasion of Italian chaps. Ah well!

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#727217 - 22nd Sep 2012 11:23am Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: ghostly1]
Archaeo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 8th Feb 2009
Posts: 349
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: ghostly1
I grew up in Greasby and the Schools have a Roman Road running parrellel to its fields also I was always told the Copse woodland was a Roman Burial Ground any further info to clarify this??


The Roman road in Greasby has never been properly substantiated - just conjecture. Certainly no Roman burial ground I'm afraid.

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#727430 - 23rd Sep 2012 4:06pm Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: granny]
derekdwc Online   content


Forum Veteran

Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 4960
Loc: Birkenhead
googled this info



I am putting forward "Bridge End Farm" as the oldest in the Country. I
believe it was named after the wooden Roman Bridge which joined Birkenhead
Woodside to Wallasey. The Bridge remains were found in 1850 and are documented.
Presumably Bridge Street is associated with the former bridge

and
In 1834 a haul of Roman coins, some bearing the head of Antonius and others of Victorinus, was found by quarrymen working at the Earl of Shrewsbury’s stone quarry in Oxton (which is now part of the Arno Park). Whether or not the find is proof that the was a Roman settlement on Oxton Hill has not yet been be determined, but it was found in a prominent position, which commanded views of great distances and in all directions. Perhaps it is more likely that somebody chose this place to hide the coins because of its remoteness - we will never know. However, it is known that Storeton stone was highly valued and widely used by the Romans and this provides evidence from Chester that they were quarrying in Storeton around 50 AD. If that is the case, there is no reason to doubt that they also visited Oxton. Other than this most slender link with distant History, nothing else is known of Oxton until after the Norman Conquest.

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#727929 - 25th Sep 2012 2:02pm Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: derekdwc]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13652
Loc: Wirral
Interesting info. Derekdwc and thanks.
Wonder where the Roman Coins ended up? Probably one of the National Museums in London, but wouldn't know what it would have been called then.There seems to have been much more effort into finding more about the Vikings on Wirral, rather than the Romans. That, I suppose could be due to Prof. Harding's interest in the Vikings.
I dare say there could be quite a lot more to find, 'lurking in the undergrowth somewhere'.


Edited by granny (25th Sep 2012 2:03pm)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#728620 - 27th Sep 2012 7:36pm Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: granny]
Archaeo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 8th Feb 2009
Posts: 349
Loc: Wirral
Granny, there's stacks of work done on Meols which was a massively important Roman port...check out Rob Philpott's work, he knows more about Roman Wirral than anyone.

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#728640 - 27th Sep 2012 8:55pm Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: Archaeo]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13652
Loc: Wirral
Archaeo, thank you very much,, I shall follow this gentleman up.
Great!
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#728669 - 27th Sep 2012 11:12pm Re: Romans In Wirral [Re: granny]
Archaeo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 8th Feb 2009
Posts: 349
Loc: Wirral
No probs, he's a top guy actually. Much of his work is available in Birkenhead Library

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