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#655752 - 20th Jan 2012 1:17pm Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere
BandyCoot Online   Reading

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Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 5337
Loc: Birkenhead
I was having a chat over a pint last night and was informed that Costa Crociere, the parent company of the stricken liner, were instrumental in Cammell Laird shutting down. It sounded like Costa were trying to reduce the cost of their build. Can anyone out there shed any light on this for me as it sounds interesting.
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#655757 - 20th Jan 2012 1:31pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: BandyCoot]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7827
Loc: tranmere


Edited by bert1 (20th Jan 2012 1:32pm)
_________________________
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Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
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#655759 - 20th Jan 2012 1:35pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: BandyCoot]
Vanmanone Offline

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Registered: 5th May 2010
Posts: 3411
Loc: The Rectory Eastham
I remember Cammell Laird building a mid section for an Italion Cruise ship which was built but not paid for by the cruise line who changed there mind on the refit and backed out,Don`t know what became of the mid section whether it was scrapped or sold I think it was scrapped tbh after taking them to Court

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#655763 - 20th Jan 2012 1:40pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: BandyCoot]
BandyCoot Online   Reading

Forum Veteran

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 5337
Loc: Birkenhead
Thanks for the enlightenment there fellahs. I hope Costa go bust themselves now. Was told last night that Costa reckoned the build wasn't up to spec, can't see that because of all the skills that were present at the yard, just not feasible. Maybe some more gen will come out apart from the official line.
_________________________
Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.

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#655770 - 20th Jan 2012 1:54pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: BandyCoot]
Wiggi77 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 2nd Oct 2010
Posts: 376
Loc: Liscard
I worked on this mid section (worked at lairds for about 18 months) It was for the costa classica to be lengthened. It was built on the slipway then launched and towed round to the wet basin. When it was about 90% complete we heard the costa classica was on its last cruise then sailing to lairds for lengthening. The next think we heard was it had been told to turn round and not come because the work was not up to standard. It sat in the wet basin for some time then got scrapped along with many skilled men's jobs.

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#655772 - 20th Jan 2012 1:59pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: BandyCoot]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9559
Loc: Birkenhead
What is funny about this, is that any contract of this size goes through the government who then effectively underwrite the contract. It seemed convenient for the government to let camel lairds slip away.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#655775 - 20th Jan 2012 2:07pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: BandyCoot]
BandyCoot Online   Reading

Forum Veteran

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 5337
Loc: Birkenhead
Tks, good gen. Keep it coming, finding it very interesting. That wiggi was more or less what I was told about last night, by a woman, she probably knew someone who worked there. She was very vehement about it that it was a put up job.
_________________________
Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.

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#655780 - 20th Jan 2012 2:35pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: BandyCoot]
Vanmanone Offline

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Registered: 5th May 2010
Posts: 3411
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#655785 - 20th Jan 2012 3:01pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: BandyCoot]
yoller Online   content
Smartchild

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 435
Loc: Cheshire
You can see some excellent pictures of Lairds' ill-fated Costa Classica mid-section at...

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=252090.msg6692312#msg6692312


.. scroll to the posting by Andonagasaki.

I read elsewhere that the mid-section eventually went for scrap to Ukraine.


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#655789 - 20th Jan 2012 3:07pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: yoller]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7827
Loc: tranmere
Apparently the receiver took Costa to the European court for the sum of 42 million around 2003/4, can't find the outcome anywhere, if indeed there's been one.
_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#655797 - 20th Jan 2012 3:27pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: BandyCoot]
yoller Online   content
Smartchild

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 435
Loc: Cheshire
There's a story here about arbitration over the mid-section dispute going against Laird's ...

http://www.freesun.be/freesun_news/10_november_2006/costa_cammel.html

Quote:
Cammel Laird: Arbitration Closes With Favourable Outcome For Costa Crociere

Arbitration Tribunal decides that the contract was terminated for the non performance by the former UK group and orders it to pay damages

Genoa - October 27, 2006 - Costa Crociere has announced the outcome of its lengthy dispute with Cammell Laird Holdings Plc, which began in 2000. The Arbitration Tribunal hearing the case - composed of the Arbitrators Messrs Professor Pietro Trimarchi (Chairman), Professor Guido Alpa and Lucio Crispo - ruled unanimously that termination of the agreement between the two parties had occurred due to the non performance of the contract on the part of the former shipyard, now in administration, and ordered them to pay damages to the cruise company. The Arbitrators' judgment recognises in full the correctness of Costa Crociere's decision to refer the matter to arbitration.

The dispute first arose over the performance of a shipbuilding contract, signed by Costa Crociere and Cammell Laird Holdings Plc, under the terms of which the former British shipbuilder and repair yard was to have built and inserted in the existing ship a hull section for the lengthening of the cruise ship Costa Classica. The work should have taken place in late 2000, early 2001.

Due to Cammell Laird's failure to complete the construction in time and to proceed with the lengthening, Costa Crociere decided to suspend the performance of the contract, not sending the ship to the yard. The contract was later cancelled in January 2001.

In the course of the arbitration proceedings, during which Costa Crociere was represented by the lawyers Messrs Andrea D'Angelo, Gian Paolo Maraini and Marco Lopez, the reasons that led Costa Crociere to withdraw from the contract were presented to the Tribunal. The Italian cruise company's arguments were subsequently upheld by the Arbitrators, becoming the basis for their ruling.

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#655799 - 20th Jan 2012 3:30pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: yoller]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7827
Loc: tranmere
Good find Yoller and thanks.
_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#655809 - 20th Jan 2012 3:54pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: BandyCoot]
yoller Online   content
Smartchild

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 435
Loc: Cheshire
A couple more stories on the arbitration here ..

http://www.tradewindsnews.com/daily/article475135.ece?service=printArticle

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/live...64375-18018927/

... I don't know anything about these things, but it seems a bit odd that it was an all-Italian tribunal. Perish the thought, but could there have been a danger of some bias?

Originally Posted By: Liverpool Daily Post

Tribunal blames Cammell Laird for 50m deal fiasco

BY WILL BATCHELOR, Daily Post Oct 31 2006

SHIPBUILDER Cammell Laird was blamed yesterday for the failure of a deal that led to the firm's collapse.

The company called in the receivers in 2001 after a 50m contract to lengthen the Italian cruise ship Costa Classica fell through.

Cammell Laird claimed that it had already built the hull section at its yard in Birkenhead, where it was waiting to be fitted.

But the ship's owners, Costa Cruises, claimed the hull section was not built within the agreed time or to the specified quality.

The ship was en route to Merseyside, with Cammell Laird staff on board marking it out for cutting, when it was ordered to return to port.

Cammell Laird was left with the 146ft, 13-deck extension, which would have added 500 cabins to the cruiser, and an unpaid bill.

Its directors blamed the Costa Classica fiasco, along with other problems, when the firm went into receivership in April 2001 with debts of 150m

An arbitration tribunal in Italy ruled that Cammell Laird was to blame for the deal's collapse.

Costa Cruises released a press statement that claimed: "The arbitration tribunal hearing the case ruled unanimously that termination of the agreement between the two parties had occurred due to the non-performance of the contract on the part of the former shipyard, now in administration, and ordered them to pay damages to the cruise company.

"The arbitrators' judgment recognises in full the correctness of Costa Cruises' decision to refer the matter to arbitration.

"Due to Cammell Laird's failure to complete the construction in time and to proceed with the lengthening, Costa Cruises decided to suspend the performance of the contract, not sending the ship to the yard."

The former directors of Cammell Laird were unavailable for comment yesterday.

Les Thomas, a shipbuilding enthusiast who founded the pressure group Save Cammell Laird, questioned the tribunal's findings. He said: "They had already launched the hull section before the Costa Classica arrived, so how can this tribunal rule that construction was not complete?

"It sounds very dubious to me, and I am not sure we will ever get to the truth of the matter.

"This is yet another disappointing chapter in a very murky tale that spelt the end for Cammell Laird."

Genoa-based Costa Cruises, which has 15 ships, is part of the US cruise group Carnival Corporation.



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#655832 - 20th Jan 2012 4:15pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: yoller]
Paintboffin Offline
Addict

Registered: 1st Aug 2011
Posts: 239
Loc: Pensby
Originally Posted By: yoller
A couple more stories on the arbitration here ..

http://www.tradewindsnews.com/daily/article475135.ece?service=printArticle

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/live...64375-18018927/

... I don't know anything about these things, but it seems a bit odd that it was an all-Italian tribunal. Perish the thought, but could there have been a danger of some bias?


I used to do a bit of work for Lairds and the employees during that period and I have seen the mid-section, but what I have not seen is any evidence of the work not being up to standard, only hearsay.

PB

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#655898 - 20th Jan 2012 5:51pm Re: Cammell Laird & Costa Crociere [Re: Paintboffin]
hoseman Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 30th Sep 2007
Posts: 2346
Loc: Bromborough
I do a lot of work for Lairds. The workmanship must be up to scratch...Think about it, HOW many warships and vessels has Lairds built?? Must be doing something right. even now they have the contract for the RFA vessels (Royal Fleet Auxillary).
I think the Italians just got cold feet and backed out AS USUAL!!!Easier to run away from things as their History proves!
This contract was a pisstake as i see it.
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