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Joined: Aug 2010
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The 11+ was a school exam in the late 50's. You took this exam
at age 11. If you failed this exam you finished school at 15.
If you passed, you went on to Grammar school at 15. How archaic
was that, your future decided at age 11. As you can tell by my spelling I failed the exam.
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Old Hand
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Wirral still has grammar schools and the 11 plus is still in place.
I'd like to know how the system works. I was bright in my junior school days but I was never invited to sit the exam.
Many kids considerably cleverer than myself were robbed of the chance of quality secondary education.
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..........If you passed, you went on to Grammar school at 15. ........ My memory of the 11+ was you took it in the final primary year, pass it and your secondary education, starting after the summer holidays, was at a grammar school, fail it (I never got my bike) and you went on to an ordinary secondary school.
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I didn't pass the 11+ and went to Hemmy but at the end of the second year was offered a place at the BI with 2 other lads.
Don't remember a 13+ exam or was it a result of doing well in the yearly school exms.
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I failed the 11+ at Prenton primary and went to Woodchurch Secondary Modern.
PB.
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I passed the 11+ at Well Lane in 1948 and also passed the entrance exam for Birkenhead School where I started in September of the same year.
Four years later I dropped out and left before taking my exams.
Carpe diem.
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So is anyone in favour of the 11+ still or not.
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Wise One
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11+ still in place, rules changed a lot though.
Optional now, you choose 3 secondary schools for your child and if a Grammar School is number 1 choice your child sit's the 11+, if they fail to make the grade they are given option 2 as there preffered option (hope that makes sense).
Kids dont choose, my eldest who is 15 never sat the 11+, the head at her primary said she was border line and may just sneak in, we decided as parents her best option was to be in top sets at a secondary school rather than bottom sets at Grammar, I feel we made the correct call as she has been predicted c or higher in all her GCSE's and many of them are A's.
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Wise One
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Sue I love the new way, we all now some kids would never make the grade and secondary normal education is better for them. Many more options for parents you no longer get preffered for distance as secondary schools specialise in say Dance/Drama or Sport etc etc so much better system for parents and kids enjoy school more as it's based on what they like most.
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Smartchild
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Hi, I left school at age 15 with no qualifications, I now employ 9 graduates with less eloquence and a lack of grammatical correctness inherent in your post. Life's what you make it.
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I was the first person in my family to pass it. I was the first to go to University too. Always made me giggle when family would try to be all la-dee-da about their kids and then asked Mum what I was doing and she'd say "Oh she's at Cambridge University". Such a giggle to see them all silenced as they thought I'd never amount to much 
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Smartchild
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I studied at oxford, but with british rail's timetable I still missed my connection.
Joking aside, i passed my 11+ and went to Wirral Grammar
Later on I did study Astrophysics at Hatfield college, Durham University
Nomad
" Per Ardua ad Astra"
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I failed the 11+ (by a whisker, my parents discovered after) and went to Prenton Sec. and on to college for FE. Happy with my lot in life thankyou. Both my sons went to Uni. and have done very well for themselves. THAT'S the important thing in my book.
Last edited by Pinzgauer; 12th Dec 2011 9:34pm.
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I work at a school that preps kids for the 11+.
My youngest went there and it wasn't for him but, most kids pass and don't look back!
It just depends on the individual, some will strive on their own and others need that little push!
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Because of the number of kids that are specifically tutored for the 11+ (either privately or within the school), the standard is quite high. Very few would pass without this specific tutoring.
Quite a lot of kids could answer the questions but the time constraint makes it very difficult to answer enough questions unless you can quickly assess the style of question, the tutoring short-cuts the need to analyse each question enabling the answer to be obtained a lot faster.
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I failed mine by like 8 points  but I didn't mind cos I later found out you had to go to wirral grammar, when I thought you could choose. I just wanted to see if I could pass it really but I've got friends who went to wirral grammar and they're in no better position than me and I'm still where I expected I'd be right now so it's all good!
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Old Hand
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I'm in favour of the 11 plus providing that it's a proper test of intelligence.
The original 11 plus was based on IQ tests. These have long since been discredited. An example of a question from the old days was:
"What is the next letter in this sequence; OTTFFS ?"
The answer is S. The sequence being One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six.
I went to a bog standard comprehensive by the way and I'm educated to postgrad level in Engineering. Or what accounts for Engineering these days, which is mostly Management. Waste of time really.
And I know a right druggy thickhead who went to Wirral Grammar so they didn't all turn out good.
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Yeah that's what ours was like, the one I couldn't get the hang of was where they put some letters, then a multiple choice of groups of letters and you had to choose the one to fit the question to make a word. So it'd be like: 1. muple a. nic b. lti c. age or something like that
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I studied at oxford, but with british rail's timetable I still missed my connection.
Joking aside, i passed my 11+ and went to Wirral Grammar
Later on I did study Astrophysics at Hatfield college, Durham University
Nomad I was there from 1990-96  RIP Gordon Youd.
Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
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I enjoyed Wirral Grammar for the most part, but during the 80's, bullying wasn't something you could go and report. My Mum only found out recently that I was bullied for the first 3 years there. After that I became the "class clown" and they eased off a bit. At the time it was hell, but now I could happily thank them as they've made me the relatively strong person I am today.
Just for the record, we didn't have any tutoring to pass it in those days - you either passed or you didn't.
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I passed it but can't remember it, but it was in the 50's. The headmistress, Miss Gee, told my folks that I "hadn't even been trying", whatever that meant, probably that it was more by error than judgement. Unfortunately I wasted the BI by joining up early but the education has always stood me in good stead so I'm always grateful for that, it did me no harm. I think they should bring them back and if not then bring all schools up to the same level, which is probably impossible because of the attitudes of some pupils now. The Chinese and Indian kids make a show of us.
Last edited by BandyCoot; 13th Dec 2011 3:08pm.
Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.
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That could be a nice bit of research - What Happened Next : Failing/Passing the 11+ : 50 Years On.
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I passed the 11+ and went to Wirral Grammar School, though most of my junior school friends failed it, so passing it was not all it was cracked up to be.
Grammar school also meant we had to wear a rubbish blazer too!
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I wouldn't attempt to either justify or condemn the old 11+ system. I guess it had its pros and cons. However, for many years I've considered it was unfair to girls.
I took the exam in 1956 and in those days the primary school I attended had each year split into equally sized "A" and "B" classes. Nobody in the "B" class ever passed the 11+. Practically all the boys in the "A" class passed but only a handful of girls. I've always believed this was simply due to the lower number of girls grammar schools in the area.
Incidentally - I was a boy and passed the exam.
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i passed in 1958 at cathcart street,went to the archives and found my name in the head teachers log book and in the birkenhead news,made up with that.only 9 passed in that year.something to be happy with.
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Smartchild
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I passed it and went to Wirral Grammar in the 80's I'm wondering If I know Wench lol
My daughter will be sitting the 11+ next year. We've been touring schools this year.
The system as we understand it is different to how dizdazdoz describes it. You choose three schools. The schools do not know what order you put them in. Each school has their own selection criteria and uses that to process your child. Some are based on ability, some are based on distance and some favour special needs, some seem to favour kids stong in say sciences..
If a school requires an 11+ pass you sit the exam. It's optional in that you can choose a none 11+ school. Incidently, some private/semi private schools also have their own entrance exam so you can apply to schools with out using the LEA or 11+. (Upton Hall for example. So you can apply to more than 3 schools via this back door.
So if a school has an entry of say 150 (5 classes of 30) and your child is ranked by their systema as 79, they get offered a place. if you are ranked 155, they do not. So a child may meet teh criteria of all three schools or only one. The LEA then collate the offers and offer you a school based on you preferences. I think if you have more than one offer you can choose.
What is crazy is that the parents have to go to the open days, check out and choose a school and apply in 3 weeks. There is no way to make an informed choice int hat time. So we started a year early and have it down to 4 or 5 schools. 3 definates and 2 not sures. i.e. ones we want tolike but something is stopping us.
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The old "O" level system was crap. I got "O" levels in Woodwork & Science. Could I get a job as a nuclear carpenter? Could I buggery!!
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I remember the 11+, sat it in 1945, on receiving a pass I was to go to Rock Ferry High, shortly before attending the next term I was told that it was to be Birkenhead Park High, which was a lot further from my home in Tranmere, I also sat an exam at Birkenhead School for a free place, didn't get to go there, still I enjoyed my time at Park High, on leaving was employed as an apprentice, then on completion of that was called up for National Service, which was spent mostly in Malaya.
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..........If you passed, you went on to Grammar school at 15. ........ My memory of the 11+ was you took it in the final primary year, pass it and your secondary education, starting after the summer holidays, was at a grammar school, fail it (I never got my bike) and you went on to an ordinary secondary school. Your memory is correct. That IS what happened.
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Not always, originally there was a 3 way outcome .... Grammar School, Secondary Modern School (often called "High Schools") or a Technical School.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn https://ddue.uk
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Wise One
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I passed it and went to Wirral Grammar in the 80's I'm wondering If I know Wench lol
My daughter will be sitting the 11+ next year. We've been touring schools this year.
The system as we understand it is different to how dizdazdoz describes it. You choose three schools. The schools do not know what order you put them in. Each school has their own selection criteria and uses that to process your child. Some are based on ability, some are based on distance and some favour special needs, some seem to favour kids stong in say sciences..
If a school requires an 11+ pass you sit the exam. It's optional in that you can choose a none 11+ school. Incidently, some private/semi private schools also have their own entrance exam so you can apply to schools with out using the LEA or 11+. (Upton Hall for example. So you can apply to more than 3 schools via this back door.
So if a school has an entry of say 150 (5 classes of 30) and your child is ranked by their systema as 79, they get offered a place. if you are ranked 155, they do not. So a child may meet teh criteria of all three schools or only one. The LEA then collate the offers and offer you a school based on you preferences. I think if you have more than one offer you can choose.
What is crazy is that the parents have to go to the open days, check out and choose a school and apply in 3 weeks. There is no way to make an informed choice int hat time. So we started a year early and have it down to 4 or 5 schools. 3 definates and 2 not sures. i.e. ones we want tolike but something is stopping us. Thats correct and what I was trying to say, where you say the schools dont know the order is what I meant about if you fail the 11+ your second choice is your 1st choice but the school's dont know that so cant judge you for not choosing them 1st. It is a crazy system but better than 4 years ago. Our oldest could have sat it and would have been close we were told, however if you failed then you were given a place at ANY school that had places left and not you 2nd prefered school.
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There was also a 13+ for a while. The idea was that some late developers, having passed the test, could transfer to one of a limited number of places at a Grammar School, after their second year in a Secondary School.
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i failed 11+ but as we were the first year of the comprehensive system, still ended up at wallasey grammar school/ henry meoles/
cos i'm that kinda guy...
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I passed the 11+ at Cole Street primary in 1967 (I think!) and went to Park High Grammar School for Girls. In the 3rd year we became co-ed with the boys school and gained some fabulous teachers from there. The following year I think we became comprehensive and a lot of kids who had passed the 13+ joined us as did a lot of rubbish teachers. I went through the entire 'O' level year with a teacher who admitted to my mother at parents evening that she did not know who I was even though I was taking her subject at 'O' level.
There was no tutoring as such to get through the 11+, we just sat mock tests every now and then.
~~Jeeps~~
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I'm fairly sure Park High has never been a grammar school, it was secondary modern before becoming comprehensive in 1972
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If you go back far enought to during the 50s. Park High, Rock ferry High and the Birkenhead I. Where all for the 11 plus pass boys. Secondary modern schools such as the Grange, Prenton park {temple road} and the Kirklands where for the likes of me who failed the 11 plus. If you where very bright and got top marks in the 11 plus you could be given a place at the BIRKENHEAD SCHOOL or WIRRAL GRAMMER which where both FEE PAYING SCHOOLS FOR THOSE THAT HAD MONEY AND COULD AFFORD TO BUY THE BEST EDUCATION.
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Park High for boys was certainly a grammar school in 1963, as it was my second choice school.
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Park High for boys was certainly a grammar school in 1963, as it was my second choice school. Thanks for that info, it confirms my memory banks are not quite dead yet even if the rest of my brain is.
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Seem to recall there where 2 Park high schools, one for boys and one for girls, was the one in claughton village the boys or girls school.
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Park High School for Girls used to be known as The Girls Secondary School but even then it was a grammar school.
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My mistake, I thought only Wallasey went down the route of having a large number of grammar schools. Generally a "high" school was secondary modern.
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Wallasey High School was a 'grammar' school (as opposed to Sec. Modern I mean...)
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i passed my 11 plus in the 50s and went to rocky high which was a grammar school,not a secondary modern.
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I might have known that Wirral bucked the trend when it comes to education matters. There are (relatively) very few grammar schools left in the country, most areas went comprehensive. I've lost count of the number of different types of school that now exist in the Wirral.
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I might have known that Wirral bucked the trend when it comes to education matters. There are (relatively) very few grammar schools left in the country, most areas went comprehensive. I've lost count of the number of different types of school that now exist in the Wirral.
dont think it was a case of bucking the trend when at the time of a large number of grammer schools on the wirral, as it was DURING THE 50s. Comprehensive schools had not even been thought of in those days. At least no matter what level of education you got in those days we could all read and write when we left school at 15 years of age.
Last edited by jimbob; 20th Dec 2011 10:29pm.
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St Anselm's was and still is a grammar school, in spite of being called a College, and now an Academy.
I don't recall any of my era, the late '40s, being 'fee-paying'. We got free-place scholarships from Cheshire County Education, after passing the equivalent of the 11+. Parents needed to buy uniform and books and there were no free buses in those days.
A damned good way to educate a lorry driver's son!!
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St Anselm's College (and Holt Hill Convent) were Direct Grant grammar schools from the 1940s until 1976.
A direct grant school had both state funded (direct from government) and fee paying pupils, the fee paying pupils could be funded either by a local authority or by private means.
In St Anselm's, the fee paying pupils were funded by Birkenhead, Wallasey and Cheshire councils, and there were a few privately funded pupils.
Following the abolition of Direct Grant schools in 1976, St Anselm's became fully fee paying until 1988 when Grant Maintained schools were introduced. St Anselm's became one of the first schools to become Grant Maintained, and no fee paying pupils were accepted after this.
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Birkenhead School was direct grant too.
Carpe diem.
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