Forums Forums Local News Closure of Kingsway and Queensway Tunnels

The country isn't skint. Don't believe the right-wing propaganda. It's just almost all the wealth is concentrated at the top.

Touchstone, I have been a union member (skilled) and have seen and worked in factories that were ruined and shut down by unions these union leaders are still in the 60s pretending to be for the poor worker while drawing pay of 190k plus. Private final salary pensions closed because they were to costly (like yours) they don't have the whole country to top it up, be thankful for what you have, there are thousands out there with no pension at all. as for the strike lets hope nobody dies because of them

Doogle, millions of the people going on strike on Wednesday are also so skilled. And so what if some aren't? Doesn't everyone deserve a decent pension and salary?

Private salary pensions closed because those at the top wanted that little bit more. And they still do. Every year they try to take ever more off us. There is a huge amount of wealth in this country and around the world. It just isn't shared about well enough.

You may believe wealth is best kept at the top. Fair enough. I don't agree with you. I think working class people, public and private, should stand together.

You keep mentioning about the people in the private sector without a pension. Do you really care about them? Or are you just jealous because public sector workers have an reasonable adequate pension? If the former, then what are you doing to bring about better pensions in the private sector?

My Bold. If that's the case, then why are they striking? Like I say, not all those who work in the Publlic Sector, whose pensions are also being messed with, have the luxury of striking. Who'd back the likes of the Emergency Services if they went on strike? There's not enough in the Armed Forces to take up the slack if the Fire Service went on all out strike. The Armed Forces can't strike, Nurses, ODP's, Dr's etc can't really strike either.

You'll notice the verb tense I use is the present, not the future. The Tories want to reduce these pensions in three main ways

1. People have to work longer
2. We have to pay a larger % into them [amounts to a 3% paycut from April]
3. The overall value will fall

Nurses can and are going on strike. Those in Unison anyway. The Royal College of Nursing will probably ballot. The F.B.U. may also ballot. I can't help that the Armed Forces can't strike. Blame the Government for that. Not ordinary working people.

I am aware of that, but as I say, they are lucky they have the option of striking. I can't see the public backing the likes of the Emergency Services striking. I was a member of the RCN many years ago when they went on strike, but I didn't because I didn't want to compromise the safety and care of my patients.

I'm not blaming you that the others can't strike, but I see it as a luxury and don't think it will serve any purpose apart from to make the public who are not affected less sympathetic to your cause because of the disruption to their lives. JMPO.

Will there not be a vote in Parliament over legislation of pensions - where is the opposition from Labour and the "anything is acceptable to stay in government" Liberals.
I think the gov and the unions and Labour all want this strike to go ahead.
The gov strategy is to divide and conquer (private v public)
the Unions to show they are not dead and buried yet.
Labour so they can have a good moan about how horrible the gov is
(although if they do get in again won't change any of the legislation or they'll make a small concession to the Unions)

It's not a luxury. Striking is often the only weapon that working people have. Remember, we lose a day's pay so it's not as if we're doing it for a laugh.
I agree with you that not everyone will be sympathetic but it's certainly not black and white. Many people will be sympathetic. The Government is already wobbling on this. Its position is not as strong as many people think.
As for causing disruption to people's lives, I think the Government cuts are already doing that, and more.

Personally I think you should enjoy your day-off/strike as you will be saving the country having to borrow the money to pay you for the day, when Brown took £10billion a year off private pensions , I didn't hear any complaints then, I didn't hear the yells and moans about the £1 trillion owing, hidden from the then goverment books by Brown, money that was for PFI and uncivil service pensions,it's seems Brown and co hadn't realised you need a current account to spend day to day and a savings account to put away pension and PFI payments money.

Live longer = work longer simples.

will people still be striking when people are living till 150?

It depresses me the ignorance on display in this thread. Many of you seem to think that "I don't have a decent pension so sod everyone else!". One more time: everyone shoul have a good pension. And yes, there is enough money to go around. Get your head out the sand and stand up for yourselves. Stop believing everything you read in the tabloids. The political apathy in this country is why we got into this mess in the first place.

The rich are never apethetic. But it seems that poor in this country seems happy as long as they have Sky Sports, X-Factor and a beer. What happened to the spirit of 1945? From the ashes of a broken almost bankrupt country we got the NHS, the Welfare State and decent, nationalised public services. Now political pygmies are leading an apathetic country into a deep bplack hole.

That's highly simplistic. The life expectancy for someone in a poor area of Glasgow, Liverpool or Newcastle is a lot lower than somewhere like leafy Surrey. It's not simples.

No ok perhaps its not as simple as all that but since the pensnsion age was set life expectancy has gone up considerably.
I also agree the country is not as bankrupt as the PR for the government is making out i also believe the pension problem does need addressing.
If I were to say you could live an extra 20 years longer than you expected to but you'd have to work a little longer what would you say? I know what I would say.

I make no claim to understand the nuances of economics but in overall terms the problem facing public sector pensions seems to be based on inadequate funds in the ‘pot’ from which pensions are paid.

I am a pensioner. I receive both a state pension and a pension from my employer of near 40 years. During my working life I paid into the national fund that goes to provide pension and I paid into my employer’s fund. My contribution to the employer’s fund was supplemented by a contribution from the employer. All fine & dandy.

Because I have links to the company pension fund organisation I know that over many years they have invested my contributions and those of colleagues very wisely, such that historically they have been able to offer a decent pension. In the years when the return on investments (interest) was good the pension fund was sufficient to be able to offer a ‘final salary’ scheme ie pension based on final salary, which by pensionable age should be quite good as salaries have increased over the years.

It happens that the global changes over the last 15 years have meant the company has far fewer employees contributing to the fund because they have HAD to cut costs/ introduce mechanisation in order to compete with competitor products made by low labour cost countries such as India, China and Indonesia. If fewer people contribute to the fund then there is less that can be paid out. Also, over the last 15 years, and especially over the last 5 years, interest rates have been such that the %interest return on the fund investments has decreased significantly. The overall effect has been no increase in my basic occupational pension over the last 6 years and an end to the final salary pension scheme. There simply is not enough money in the pot and no amount of whinging or days of action will increase the pot. Times WILL change and I look forward to that. Meanwhile I understand and have to accept that my disposable income has reduced.

In contrast, my contributions to the state pension scheme over 40 years seem to have not been invested wisely meaning again that there is a significant shortfall of funds in the pension pot. In my company I know why there is a shortfall. I have yet to hear why there is such a significant shortfall in the pot for the state pension.

I believe, but will stand to be corrected if someone can do tell me why, that the shortfall comes because
A) Too many people are buying goods made outside UK when they could (in some but not all) instances buy British. Mostly this applies to food & furniture.

B) The same pot of money SEEMS to have to also pay for “benefits” of various kinds – many genuine and highly deserving – but a heck of a lot going to folk who do not deserve. We all KNOW that the UK benefits hand-out system is the laughing stock of Europe. Sorry, but that is a disgrace.

C) The payments into the state pension fund have reduced for the same reason ie on benefits = no contribution.

To keep paying the pensions from the reduced public pension pot the UK Ltd has to borrow on the international market – Govt Securities, effectively IOUs that have to be paid back some time WITH interest. UK Ltd can't afford that or we end up like Greece.

Maybe it would have been better if, years ago, the payments to the state for eventual pension had been kept quite separate from payemnts for health and benefits. You cannot turn the clock back.

I am sure I have some of this wrong but it is my perception of events.

The issue is what can be done about it? Here I have to say do not know. What I am sure about is that industrial action is NOT going to help. What will help are people working a bit longer and so making contributions for a bit longer. Personally I would have loved to work until my present near 70 years rather than having been manoeuvred into early retirement 10 years ago (company politics) so I started my own company.

What will also help of course are increased contributions and some action to “thin out” the number of people would could work but do not work because the benefit system can often remove the work incentive.

YES, I know there are many here and elsewhere who would dearly love to work if they could find a job. Increasing unemployment is bad, very bad. SOME movement to reducing unemployment can be made by the option A) above ie buy less from outside UK. Another contribution will be for wages to reduce. Sorry, but in general in UK people have too high an expectation. A mid-20's relative in the USA gets $2.50 an hour for unskilled work in a garage. He cannot live of that of course so he is CREATING a new business for himself. $2.50 an hour is a lot less than our minimum wage which IS a deterrent to some employers. Also a significant deterrent to employers is the legislation that makes it far too difficult to dismiss that new employee "you thought would be good but who turned out a be a lemon". I know. I have been an employer post main company retirement.


Snod – runs for the Anderson shelter to wait for the fall out

Touchstone. I give up on you have you heard yourself its like something from the past, Lets bring the country down put everyone out of work but I will be alright I have my government pension they can cut the dole and use the money to top up my pension. you sound like a union rep to me your ideas and thinking go back to the communist way of thinking.do you want another 3 day week? This government is broke and if the truth was known it is very broke, we have to hold back for our young population, don't be greedy fall in line with the private sector we have given and lost also but did not have the luxury of striking.