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#619560 - 11th Nov 2011 2:02pm A poem by Wilfred Owen-Famous poet of WW1
poodlepup Offline
Forum Guardian

Registered: 6th Oct 2010
Posts: 3973
Loc: wirral
Dulce et Decorum est


Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame, all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! -- An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime. --
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin,
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs
Bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, --
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
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#619582 - 11th Nov 2011 3:15pm Re: A poem by Wilfred Owen-Famous poet of WW1 [Re: poodlepup]
DeanoBirko Offline
Wise One

Registered: 12th Oct 2011
Posts: 783
Loc: Birkenhead
Excellent and very fitting with Rememberance day. Love Wilfred Owen

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#619583 - 11th Nov 2011 3:16pm Re: A poem by Wilfred Owen-Famous poet of WW1 [Re: poodlepup]
Touchstone Offline

Guardian

Registered: 25th Sep 2010
Posts: 899
Loc: Wallasey
Nice poem. It certainly goes against the grain of the way the military and war are over-romantised these days. Wilfred Owen did not glorify war or call soldiers heroes. Instead reflected on its brutal nature. Mostly innocent young men being sent as lambs to the slaughter by the powers that be.

World War One was basically just European Imperial powers just destroying a whole generation of each others young men. The whole thing was done just to satisfy the egos of the ruling classes. The wonderful Blackadder Goes Forth summed this up beautifully.

World War Two was a little different as Hitler was a dangerous menace that had to be defeated. Many brave soldiers fought against the Nazis. But lets also remember the brave merchant seamen, the coal miners, the land girls etc all just as important.

More recent wars like Afghanistan and Iraq are just part of a very dubious foreign policy. Countless innocent civilians killed alongside British and American troops for what? Oil? Getting rid of nutjobs like Saddam Hussein and the Taliban that we'd put there in the first place. All victims of war should be remembered every November 11th. We should also remember the po-faced politicians and royalty who caused all this trouble throughout human History. They'll all be at the cenotaph with their empty words.

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#619586 - 11th Nov 2011 3:18pm Re: A poem by Wilfred Owen-Famous poet of WW1 [Re: poodlepup]
Stegga Offline

Addict

Registered: 28th Feb 2009
Posts: 261
Loc: woodchurch
What a very poignant and relevent poem.

Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.

Roughly translates as....'it is sweet and beautiful to die for your native land'.

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#619594 - 11th Nov 2011 3:29pm Re: A poem by Wilfred Owen-Famous poet of WW1 [Re: poodlepup]
Touchstone Offline

Guardian

Registered: 25th Sep 2010
Posts: 899
Loc: Wallasey
Owen apparently dedicated this poem to Jessie Pope, a poet who tried to get young men to sign up to the military. This poem shows the horible reality of war. In total contrast to the romanticised crap of Pope.

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#619602 - 11th Nov 2011 3:51pm Re: A poem by Wilfred Owen-Famous poet of WW1 [Re: poodlepup]
Pinzgauer
Unregistered


Thanks pp. Great stuff.

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#619635 - 11th Nov 2011 4:57pm Re: A poem by Wilfred Owen-Famous poet of WW1 [Re: ]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
The origin of the phrase is from an ode by Horace.

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori:
mors et fugacem persequitur virum
nec parcit inbellis iuventae
poplitibus timidove tergo.

"How sweet and fitting it is to die for one's country:
Death pursues the man who flees,
spares not the hamstrings or cowardly backs
Of battle-shy youths."
_________________________
Carpe diem.

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#621123 - 14th Nov 2011 3:06pm Re: A poem by Wilfred Owen-Famous poet of WW1 [Re: poodlepup]
DeanoBirko Offline
Wise One

Registered: 12th Oct 2011
Posts: 783
Loc: Birkenhead
Anyone listen to Pink Floyd - The Final Cut?

Some very deep and thought provoking lyrics on the subject. One of their most underrated albums.

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#621972 - 15th Nov 2011 5:22pm Re: A poem by Wilfred Owen-Famous poet of WW1 [Re: chriskay]
FiremanFil Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 17th Sep 2011
Posts: 574
Loc: Wirral
I wonder sometimes at people's perception of Horace. Was he ever in a battle? I'm not too sure-never read him much, but I would venture to suggest he may have been more of a politician. That sentiment stinks of hypocrisy. War is just a lot of bollox. No heroes. No cowards. Nothing but propaganda. Most folks just want to live in peace and quiet. If you put 6 children of different ethnicity in a room-they would all play together. The problem comes when they get f**ked up by adults. Philip Larkin is much more perceptive than Horace!!
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#622022 - 15th Nov 2011 6:55pm Re: A poem by Wilfred Owen-Famous poet of WW1 [Re: FiremanFil]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Horace can hardly have been considered a military man; he was briefly an officer in Brutus's army, defeated at the battle of Philippi, where he is reputed to have fled, leaving his shield behind.
I agree that the sentiments expressed in "Dulce et Decorum Est" are hypocritical.
_________________________
Carpe diem.

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#622308 - 16th Nov 2011 11:54am Re: A poem by Wilfred Owen-Famous poet of WW1 [Re: chriskay]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Oh, for those who don't get the Philip Larkin reference:

Philip Larkin - This Be The Verse

They f**k you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were f**ked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
_________________________
Carpe diem.

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#625005 - 20th Nov 2011 12:27am Re: A poem by Wilfred Owen-Famous poet of WW1 [Re: chriskay]
FiremanFil Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 17th Sep 2011
Posts: 574
Loc: Wirral
Yep, CK. That's the poem I was referring to. I just wish we could pass on some happiness. There's lots of it out there if you try to look. The world is still a great place to be in-unless you're a bigot. Handy exercise-look in the mirror and frown at yourself. Next-look in the mirror and smile at yourself. Which makes you feel better? Know why it makes you feel better? Because it's harder to smile, but the end result is worth the effort!! :-)
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