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#572834 - 31st Aug 2011 9:44am The housing market
detsi Offline
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Registered: 6th Feb 2010
Posts: 225
Loc: wallasey
Reflecting on yesterday's reports. How are our children expected to buy their own home? This is now a privilege for the wealthy or the children of the wealthy. Both my sons are in well paid jobs but both are also living in rented accommodation, making it almost impossible for them to save for a deposit. They both left Uni. with the usual amount of debt which increases the difficulty of saving. I was always a Labour voter but I will never forgive them for sitting back to watch the price of property escalate to a level that made only the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Why can't this country adopt a similar system as many European countries where living in rented accommodation is not a stigma but the norm. Their governments own the property and consequently receive the rent, not as it is here where often the property is own by foreign landlords. A lot of the rented properties on the Continent are quite luxurious and the rent includes Broadband and gas, electric. water rates etc. Families are able to upsize and downsize, depending on their situations and it is more convenient for people to be flexible with where they work. If things remain the same in this country, the future generations will be living in a divided society of the haves and have nots because the haves will get their inheritances and the have nots will have nothing.


Edited by detsi (31st Aug 2011 9:52am)
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#572836 - 31st Aug 2011 10:05am Re: The housing market [Re: detsi]
Nobody
Unregistered


Firstly, think yourself lucky you and your children don't live in London. The North/South divide is no longer just a divide, it's a massive gap.

Home ownership is going to slump to not much more than around 60% if you believe the reports, so you and your kids are not alone in that respect either. It's not been that low since the mid 80's.

You can't just go on blaming the Labour government either, they're not solely responsible for the mess of the last few years. Greedy people are.

I'm not just talking 'greedy bankers' as people just love to jump on them. Look at the 'have nots' as you put it... these people have for years believed that they are 'should haves' because others have. Well it doesn't quite work like that.

So because these people have been borrowing to the hilt for their PS3's and their widescreen TV's and the cars that they can't afford (instead of saving like a normal person) the lending criteria across the board is now so strict that people just cannot get the loans without huge deposits - which in itself is a vicious circle.

I read somewhere that the average age that offspring move out of their parents place is now 33, I can't back that up though as I can't find the stats.

Interest only mortgages are pointless at the moment as you may as well rent. I'm seeing a lot of my clients ploughing money into cheap houses that people are desperate to get rid of knowing that there's always going to be people needing to rent.

Also remember that the banks don't actually have the money to lend in most cases, it has to be reserved for their best customers as their supply isn't endless either.

I'm enjoying the fact that houses can now be picked up for buttons, that people are desperate to sell and can't find buyers. It works in my favour.

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#572845 - 31st Aug 2011 10:17am Re: The housing market [Re: detsi]
gemgem87 Offline

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Registered: 10th Jan 2009
Posts: 165
Loc: Wallasey
Completely agree with you Detsi. My mum and dad have just had to put their house on the market as it's a 5 bedroomed house and now only the two of them live there. After being valued they've been told it's now worth about 50 grand less than it would have been say a year or two ago, and if it sells (which is a big IF in the current climate!) they will more than likely have to rent due to not making enough to be able to buy again, or (best case scenario) have to use the money left over after paying what's left of the current mortgage to make up a deposit and take out a new mortgage.
They're retired, and honestly thought that they would be able to sell the house and simply downgrade to a smaller house without needing to worry about renting or taking out another mortgage, and it's a shame because if they had decided to sell a few years ago they might have been able to. If a 50-odd year old couple who have paid a mortgage for years and years are having to essentialy go back to square one what hope have the younger generation got of even getting on the property ladder!?
I looked at getting a "part equity" mortgage a few years back, where you basically pay half mortgage and half rent each month with the option to "upgrade" to paying full mortgage over the time. (can't remember what the correct term for that is? I'm sure someone will correct me!) This seemed the best option to get on the property ladder in my situation at the time, but even with doing that I was still looking at stumping up a 5 grand deposit. Doesn't sound like a lot, but as you said when you're paying rent as well who can afford to save up an amount like that?

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#572850 - 31st Aug 2011 10:20am Re: The housing market [Re: detsi]
Boogles Offline
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Registered: 6th Jul 2011
Posts: 31
Loc: Heswall

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#572862 - 31st Aug 2011 10:28am Re: The housing market [Re: ]
gemgem87 Offline

Enthusiast

Registered: 10th Jan 2009
Posts: 165
Loc: Wallasey
Originally Posted By: Nobody


Also remember that the banks don't actually have the money to lend in most cases, it has to be reserved for their best customers as their supply isn't endless either.



Ain't that the truth. Having worked in finance for over 4 years (for my sins!) I've gone through income and expenditures with customers who clearly can't afford to take out further finance, only to be approved for a loan which is more than they originally applied for, with higher repayments! Justified by a good banking History with the bank, oh and a higher, "at risk" APR, I might add

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#572870 - 31st Aug 2011 10:33am Re: The housing market [Re: detsi]
detsi Offline
Addict

Registered: 6th Feb 2010
Posts: 225
Loc: wallasey
Hi, Nobody,

You make some very good points. I agree entirely with you regarding greedy people.

___________________________________________________________________

Hi, Gemgem87

I expect your situation is typical of many. I sympathise.
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#572879 - 31st Aug 2011 10:43am Re: The housing market [Re: gemgem87]
Nobody
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: gemgem87
Having worked in finance for over 4 years (for my sins!) I've gone through income and expenditures with customers who clearly can't afford to take out further finance, only to be approved for a loan which is more than they originally applied for, with higher repayments! Justified by a good banking history with the bank, oh and a higher, "at risk" APR, I might add


A great summary of what exactly has been going wrong.

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#572902 - 31st Aug 2011 11:47am Re: The housing market [Re: detsi]
polo_phil Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 9th Jan 2009
Posts: 3080
Loc: Birkenhead
I hate people who spend money they don't have on unnecessary stuff...

Cue one of the oldies 'Back in my day if you couldn't afford it you did without'

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#572907 - 31st Aug 2011 12:05pm Re: The housing market [Re: detsi]
ludwigvan Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 6th Jan 2010
Posts: 1129
Loc: Middle Earth
Nah,back in my day we had H.P.(Hire purchase)to you youngsters.Ha Ha.

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#572930 - 31st Aug 2011 12:59pm Re: The housing market [Re: detsi]
detsi Offline
Addict

Registered: 6th Feb 2010
Posts: 225
Loc: wallasey
Originally Posted By: detsi
Hi, Nobody,

I agree entirely with you regarding greedy people.



The price of property rocketed when thousands of people jumped on the band wagon and upped their selling prices to unrealistic prices.
I know of someone who moved three times in two years. They made a fortune and some might say "good on them". But it was this kind of thing that put the cost of houses where it is today.
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#572943 - 31st Aug 2011 1:49pm Re: The housing market [Re: detsi]
BandyCoot Offline

Forum Veteran

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 5349
Loc: Birkenhead
The housing market has been used as a get rich quick scheme by some, which is what it was. I lost a load on selling my place to move back here but we looked on it as being just a house for a house, so we lost on paper but not in facility. If people look on having a house as just an investment and try to keep getting bigger and bigger mansions then it is going to cause problems and it did. A house is somewhere to live not necessarily the road to a fortune. At the end of the day it is all about market forces and if people got places they couldn't afford then they are at fault not anyone else. To go into property you have to sort your head out first to get what you need not what you desire. Some people made a lot of money then lost it by over buying but if you have a house to live then you are basically ok and shouldn't worry. In Germany there is no stigma to renting, that is just a Brit invented thing (materialistics again). But even where houses are rented out then someone is making loads out of it. Market forces again.
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#573002 - 31st Aug 2011 5:43pm Re: The housing market [Re: polo_phil]
gemgem87 Offline

Enthusiast

Registered: 10th Jan 2009
Posts: 165
Loc: Wallasey
Originally Posted By: polo_phil
I hate people who spend money they don't have on unnecessary stuff...

Cue one of the oldies 'Back in my day if you couldn't afford it you did without'


I remember speaking to a girl who told me she HAD to spend £200 every weekend to buy new clothes, get her hair done and to go out, and asked me to put it down as housekeeping and contingency!! I was like, hmmmmm, maybe if you just saved up for a few weeks you wouldn't actually need this £1000 loan?? At the time I didn't even have £200 a MONTH spare, let alone every weekend!
Off topic I know, but it just came back to me reading your comment!

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#573003 - 31st Aug 2011 6:00pm Re: The housing market [Re: BandyCoot]
gemgem87 Offline

Enthusiast

Registered: 10th Jan 2009
Posts: 165
Loc: Wallasey
Originally Posted By: BandyCoot
The housing market has been used as a get rich quick scheme by some, which is what it was. I lost a load on selling my place to move back here but we looked on it as being just a house for a house, so we lost on paper but not in facility. If people look on having a house as just an investment and try to keep getting bigger and bigger mansions then it is going to cause problems and it did. A house is somewhere to live not necessarily the road to a fortune. At the end of the day it is all about market forces and if people got places they couldn't afford then they are at fault not anyone else. To go into property you have to sort your head out first to get what you need not what you desire. Some people made a lot of money then lost it by over buying but if you have a house to live then you are basically ok and shouldn't worry. In Germany there is no stigma to renting, that is just a Brit invented thing (materialistics again). But even where houses are rented out then someone is making loads out of it. Market forces again.


I don't know so much about it being a stigma to rent, from my perspective I just think it's pouring money into something and not seeing anything at the end of it. It's just dead money. I would rather pay £500 a month into a property which I can build up to be my home, decorate it as I want, be able to get pets if I wanted to and maybe even be able to pass on to my family when the time comes. There's nothing wrong with renting, but it's frustrating to have to do so when you don't necessarily want to.

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#573013 - 31st Aug 2011 6:38pm Re: The housing market [Re: detsi]
detsi Offline
Addict

Registered: 6th Feb 2010
Posts: 225
Loc: wallasey
I believe that renting is, unfortunately, stigmatised by some people. It falls in the same category as living on a counsel estate, there is nothing wrong with it and plenty of decent, respectable people do it. But society, being what it is, forces people into thinking that they are better off owning a battered old slum than renting a very pleasant semi from the counsel. I think the term is 'snobbishness'
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#573034 - 31st Aug 2011 7:19pm Re: The housing market [Re: detsi]
Historybook Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 20th Dec 2008
Posts: 190
Loc: Wrexham
House prices have been and still are at silly levels, i feel sad for young people who are looking to buy their first home. Renting is also linked to the price that the house owner needs to get to have a return on the money they have invested in the property.

When i bought my first house it was three time's what i earned which governed what i could buy, but then most people where in the same boat and this was reflected in the asking prices of property.
My father was allowed 1.5 times what he earned for a mortgage, once again this governed what he could buy, (although this was many years ago now)

My own take on it rightly or wrongly, by my own observation is that when i was looking for a house most couples only took one wage into account when thinking about how much they had to spend on a house, higher house prices where serviced by both couples staying at work even after having kids, so house prices carried on rising until they met the amount that could reasonably be paid for by two full time incomes, this of course meant that a single person had no hope of buying or for that matter renting somewhere at an affordable price !.

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