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Joined: Oct 2009
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Everytime they called me, I told them they had acted illegally as they are operating under U.S. laws but here in the U.K.
I pretty much begged them to take me to court as I knew I'd win but they wouldn't because they knew it aswell. Actually, I think you will find they currently operate under EU law, being based in Luxembourg and registered as a European bank, regulated by the Luxembourg equivalent to the FSA. Previous to this (they changed in 2007 or 2008 iirc), their EU division operated as a UK entity based in London, and was regulated by the FSA. PayPal in Europe have not traded under US law since they used Wells Fargo as their European intermediary bank, and even then the operations for the transfer of money were carried out via their London arm, thus regulated by UK law. Ah, well either way, they wouldn't take me to court for whatever reason and I just presumed it was because I mentioned them operating illegally.
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As someone who takes in the region of 1000 payments by PayPal each year (used to be quote a lot more), and having used the service since it was called Billpoint, I can honestly say that I have a lot of faith in their service and procedures; sure it does not always work out well, and they have had their bad press over the years, but generally, they have always been very good with me.
As I said earlier Willo, fight the case, you are almost certainly onto a winner anyway given the claimant has left positive feedback, and the legnth of time that has elapsed; I won a case a few years back, whereby I sold a K800i Silver when they first came out, a week prior to Christmas (2004 iirc?). Anyway, the phone sold for circa £300, and though the item sold two days before the final working day/Royal Mail delivery day before Christmas, I recieved an email requesting it to be delivered before Xmas day. So I sent, as I was going to anyway given the value, via Special Delivery.
On January 5th, I recieved a message from PayPal informing me that the buyer had filed a claim stating they hadnt recieved the item. They hadnt left feedback, and I was worried I was going to lose the money; but I stayed calm, cancelled my DD with the bank and removed my cards from PayPal, complied with all PayPals requests for information, provided the tracking number etc... and 10 days later, they found in my favour, and removed the hold on my account/minus balance.
Never heard anything again!! Lol! If you have proof of postage and a tracking number that proves delivery then that's all good and well. My case was different and oh so easy to do - I won't go into full details on an open forum ( not that I don't trust anyone but just think it's a bad idea, lol ) but basically, it was HIS proof of delivery when returning the item that screwed me. Also, when selling large items like cars e.t.c. NEVER use paypal because if the buyer claims non-receipt after they have collected the car, you don't have proof of postage to show paypal ( this happened to my next door neighbour and he lost a £3500 celica ) - the buyer gave false name and address details and it's probably somewhere in Eastern Europe now. Not sure why anyone would use PayPal to sell high-value goods, cash or cleared bank transfer/cheque (6 days after clearance, the funds cannot be recalled iirc), personally I wouldnt. I have a merchant account, and after a few chancers over the years charging back through PayPal for high-value products and services, I now won't accept PayPal for anything over £200 - PayPal have always been very helpful, but I feel their security systems are not as strong as they could be, and I have chargeback protection on the merchant account, so it helps when things do go wrong. But I can't really say I totally blame PayPal for it, it's the scammers who are the guilty party, the problem I think PayPal have, is they are not secure enough with regards checks etc, so they do tend to attract the Grrrs in society who just want scam everyone.  People use Paypal to sell high value goods on Ebay because Ebay say they HAVE TO!! Part of Ebay T&C's that ALL sellers must offer Paypal as a method of payment. I don't blame Paypal for the scammers either, I'm just saying I don't agree with how easy they make it for them. There'll always be sammers on every site but Paypal claiming to be "the safe way to buy and sell online" just isn't true - for buyers or sellers.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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They wont take you to court, because its easier to sell your debt as part of a potfolio to a debt recovery agency for a cut-price, and let them do the hard work.
I though eBay allow Bank Transfer, Cheque, Postal Order and CoC - I know they stopped all other 3PP's such as Nochex a few years ago though?
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Part of Ebay T&C's that ALL sellers must offer Paypal as a method of payment No they don't, you can specify that payment is NOT through paypal.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn https://ddue.uk
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willo
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willo
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Hello Willo, why dont you just close your account with ebay and open up another .Ok you will have to start all over again but then pay pal cant take your money, good luck any ways ,June , not as easy as that, it wont let me close it, as outstanding case open
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They wont take you to court, because its easier to sell your debt as part of a potfolio to a debt recovery agency for a cut-price, and let them do the hard work.
I though eBay allow Bank Transfer, Cheque, Postal Order and CoC - I know they stopped all other 3PP's such as Nochex a few years ago though? No debt collection agency ever involved - they just knew they were wrong ( this was about 3 years ago now ). They do still allow you to offer other payment types but one of them HAS to be Paypal.
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Part of Ebay T&C's that ALL sellers must offer Paypal as a method of payment No they don't, you can specify that payment is NOT through paypal. No you can't - it's against T&C's. If somebody reports your advert for saying "no paypal" then they delete it - happened to me many times. You can still offer other payment options but Paypal HAS to be one of them.
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Paypals terms and conditions show:
4.2 Use of PayPal on eBay. Sellers who offer PayPal as a payment method in their eBay listings must follow these requirements:
a.
Accept PayPal if the eBay listing includes PayPal as a payment method.
b.
Accept PayPal payments via all PayPal funding sources from a buyer, including but not limited to eCheque and credit cards.
c.
Accept cross border PayPal transactions which are permitted by PayPal if the eBay listing offers postage outside the place where you are registered.
So if you say you'll accept it, and EBay often say you must, that you have to take it, but you can insist on extra security, especially with vehicle collections (I always take a picture of the person next to the car with the whole car, including reg plate in view, never had anybody mind)
I've been using eBay and Paypal for years (they are part of the same company) and have seen just about every scam going.
Cheques from abroad may "clear" in you account after a few days but aren't "given value" for several weeks, so the funds can be called back by the bank at any time, often after you think you have the money and the item is overseas.
I've sold phones where they've claimed they've not arrived (always send by recorded post), I had one buyer claim the phone I sent him was a dummy, however he was a bit thick and had already emailed me to ask for the password on the phone (I always send them out with a password on so I can prove they have arrived working) which I forwarded to Paypal.
I had someone try to claim that an AppleMac they'd been sent had arrived broken, it took them a month to notice the big crack across the screen and when asked why they said that they'd only just got the parcel as they'd been on holiday, Royal Mail provided a copy of their signature for the morning after I posted it...busted.
There are loads more, Paypal have just issued me with a Mastercard linked directly to my Paypal account (I've had the Paypal PrePay card for ages), so no doubt there are a load of new scams about to hit the streets with this.
My advice, don't go all ballistic on Paypal, they will help you, don't go the whole I'm not doing anything with the buyer, it won't achieve anything. Right now the buyer doesn't have his money back Paypal is just holding it, all you have to do is reply to the resolution, say that the item sent was completely as described with all accessories as described, that the buyer has received it in good working order as proven by his positive feedback, and it would now appear that he has broken it and is trying to claim a refund for something he has done for which he is not eligible and can you please have your money released.
It can take about a month (sometimes 2 or 3) to sort out (which is why many people have muliple eBay/Paypal accounts), but make sure you call them, as much of their procedure is automated, it can quite easily tell the buyer to return the item to you and refund him once he provides proof of postage, so call them and get a real person to look at the case, and the feedback, and you might get it resolved quite quickly.
When you call them, count how many times they tell you that they will "escalate" your case, always funny how they think that will impress you.
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No debt collection agency ever involved - they just knew they were wrong ( this was about 3 years ago now ) If thats the case, whats your complaint about them? By your own admission, they knew they were wrong to pursue you, and have acted according (leaving you alone now) - had that been the HSBC or Capital One (most other banks basically) or even Sky etc, they would have hounded you, then passed the debt on to an internal debt-collection dept, and then eventually sold the debt off in a portfolio to an external debt-collection agency, who would have taken you to court eventually - regardless of whether you were right or wrong - so what you are saying, actually makes PayPal look better than most companies! By the way, there is still time for them to pass the debt on/take you to court, so don't count your chickens just yet.
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No debt collection agency ever involved - they just knew they were wrong ( this was about 3 years ago now ) If thats the case, whats your complaint about them? By your own admission, they knew they were wrong to pursue you, and have acted according (leaving you alone now) - had that been the HSBC or Capital One (most other banks basically) or even Sky etc, they would have hounded you, then passed the debt on to an internal debt-collection dept, and then eventually sold the debt off in a portfolio to an external debt-collection agency, who would have taken you to court eventually - regardless of whether you were right or wrong - so what you are saying, actually makes PayPal look better than most companies! By the way, there is still time for them to pass the debt on/take you to court, so don't count your chickens just yet. My complaint is that the guy still got a refund AND kept my bracelet!! I don't want to say how he did it on here but I'll PM you the details
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No debt collection agency ever involved - they just knew they were wrong ( this was about 3 years ago now ) If thats the case, whats your complaint about them? By your own admission, they knew they were wrong to pursue you, and have acted according (leaving you alone now) - had that been the HSBC or Capital One (most other banks basically) or even Sky etc, they would have hounded you, then passed the debt on to an internal debt-collection dept, and then eventually sold the debt off in a portfolio to an external debt-collection agency, who would have taken you to court eventually - regardless of whether you were right or wrong - so what you are saying, actually makes PayPal look better than most companies! By the way, there is still time for them to pass the debt on/take you to court, so don't count your chickens just yet. My complaint is that the guy still got a refund AND kept my bracelet!! I don't want to say how he did it on here but I'll PM you the details I have a feeling I know how he's done it, and I have a feeling it will be down to playing the PayPal dispute procedure as it is quite obviously flawwed in a few respects, but would be interested to see what it was. 
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No debt collection agency ever involved - they just knew they were wrong ( this was about 3 years ago now ) If thats the case, whats your complaint about them? By your own admission, they knew they were wrong to pursue you, and have acted according (leaving you alone now) - had that been the HSBC or Capital One (most other banks basically) or even Sky etc, they would have hounded you, then passed the debt on to an internal debt-collection dept, and then eventually sold the debt off in a portfolio to an external debt-collection agency, who would have taken you to court eventually - regardless of whether you were right or wrong - so what you are saying, actually makes PayPal look better than most companies! By the way, there is still time for them to pass the debt on/take you to court, so don't count your chickens just yet. My complaint is that the guy still got a refund AND kept my bracelet!! I don't want to say how he did it on here but I'll PM you the details Scratch that - your PM box is full. Basically the guy won a bracelet from me at £930. The auction ended on a Sunday evening and he paid Via Paypal immediately. I told him on the Monday that it had been sent. 2 hours later, he opened a dispute against me for "item not as described". How the hell could he have known that when it was still probably sat in my local post office? Anyway, to cut a long story short, after a week or two Paypal agreed that he could have a refund if he sent the bracelet back to me. I reluctantly agreed. The postman brought the Special Delivery package to my door where I obviously signed for it and he left. Opened the packet and the scamming bar steward had only returned the box that the bracelet was originally in and NOT the bracelet. Paypal said I had received it as proof of delivery was available to view online via Royal Mail. They refunded him and sent my Paypal account over drawn while he happily kept my bracelet. Cheeky get even left me positive feedback saying "Thanks!" THAT'S my beef with Paypal, lol. Oh and just incase anyone wants to dispute the Paypal thing on ebay, here's the link on Ebay stating that sellers MUST offer Paypal as one of the options : http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.htmlabout half way down the page. I know that the scammers are the ones to blame, I'm just saying that Paypal make it far too easy for them.
Last edited by Volly; 10th Jun 2011 4:10pm.
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Dang, 99/100 and it says full, stupid thing!! Always happens to me that! Exactly as I expected, the flaw there is all they require is a tracking code; there is another similar flaw in that procedure, which I wont post, but I accidentally found it (its to do with the timeframe)... you will probably grasp it hehe.
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Dang, 99/100 and it says full, stupid thing!! Always happens to me that! Exactly as I expected, the flaw there is all they require is a tracking code; there is another major flaw in that procedure, which I wont post, but I accidentally found it (its to do with the timeframe)... you will probably grasp it hehe. Lol, but do you see my problem with them now? They don't operate fairly at all - so long as they get thier fee's, they don't really give a stuff. Which is another thing that p**ses me off about them. Paypal and Ebay are essentially the same people ( one owns the other but not sure which way around ) yet you pay a listing fee, a final value fee and a Paypal fee ( most of the time ) 3 fee's for selling one item!! Grabbing sods!!
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Part of Ebay T&C's that ALL sellers must offer Paypal as a method of payment No they don't, you can specify that payment is NOT through paypal. No you can't - it's against T&C's. If somebody reports your advert for saying "no paypal" then they delete it - happened to me many times. You can still offer other payment options but Paypal HAS to be one of them. Checking through some of the plethora of ebay rules and guidelines, we are both correct, in some places it says you don't have to offer paypal, in others it says you must. I've been caught out the other way in the past, I won something and then noticed that the seller had specified no paypal. It will be interesting to see if some ombudsman or other is aware of this - the auction and banking comapnies should not be intertwined to that extent, I'm sure ebay haven't got a right to insist on this.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn https://ddue.uk
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