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#473213 - 15th Feb 2011 11:36am Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work!
MattLFC Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
On tonights Newsnight, there will be a feature-report about benefit claimants being forced to either work, or lose their benefits. You can read about it on the BBC website as well.

Quote:
In Britain, the share of working-aged people who are out of work - over a quarter - is unusually high. Close to six million people are living on benefits of one kind or another, a tenth of the whole population.

The recession may have caused the numbers of unemployed to grow, but 4.5 million people were living on out-of-work benefits even before the recession. And the largest number of dependents, 2.6 million, claim to be disabled and are living on incapacity benefit. Steps have been taken to move all of these groups, as well as lone parents, toward employment, yet dependency on benefits remains high.

In contrast, the US welfare reforms of the 1990s succeeded in cutting the number of people claiming welfare by over two-thirds, and in the state of Wisconsin we reduced the number by 80%.

It was tough love - if people did not work, they lost their benefits.

Anyone up for a debate? Lol. Ive always said people who don't want to work, are entitled not to have to, but should also not be entitled to state benefits. Many have argued against this, with quite valid reasoning, and I accept its a tricky situation, but I do believe the current methods of looking after people and trying to encourage them to work, have been tried, and failed, many many times over the past few decades.

It appears the US system even got the teenage mothers/career mothers who feel in the UK, they can pop a kid out every 7 years and have a right never to work...

Quote:
Claimants were told to look for work as soon as they went onto aid, or even applied for it.

Many left welfare for jobs quickly. Even larger numbers moved into work directly without going onto welfare at all.

And the programme also affected lone mothers with children, a group which in Britain is seen as less employable and faces, as yet, no definite work requirement.

And then we have the folk who think its a human right, for some scroungers to avoid working, whilst hard working, honest and decent people, have to pay to keep them...

Quote:
More important is the fact that many people still believe in entitlement - this is the idea that you have a right to get benefits if you qualify under the income rules, and you should not have to work for them.

I met some trades union staff who defended this attitude. They failed to see the irony - originally trade unions defended the rights of working people, but now they were defending people who lived without working, even for years at a time.

A further influence is that even claimants who accepted the idea of compulsory work found it difficult to imagine actually going to work. I met a group of unemployment benefits recipients at a community centre in Anfield, one of the most depressed areas in Liverpool.

When I broached the idea of their having to work to get aid, they came up with all kinds of problems. Some doubted that jobs were available, but more doubted they could get the child care or training that they needed.

Above all, several claimed that if they took a job they would lose more in benefits than they would gain in earnings, and thus would emerge worse off.

Excuses, excuses.

I think its about time we start making life very very hard for long-term scroungers and the like. Fused with todays report that upto 64% of people in Aberdeen and Burnley, claiming Incapacity/Disability benefit, have been found fit for work (some do require extra support and assistance), the like of which are costing the taxpayer 13 billion per year alone, I think we should start being more rigourous with checks for those who actually need it.

In one of my jobs, I reguarly see allsorts of scroungers and hear of all manner of stories of how people avoid working, and how people "dress up" for the disability claims etc, to ensure they continue to get the benefits, and effectively defraud the system.

I think those with genuine disability of incapacity, should get what they are entitled to, in fact if we get rid of those who dont need it, they could get more!! It angers me when I see folk with real, serious disabilities, having to fundraise in the local community, relying on charity support and having to go through allsorts of rigmarole, months and even sometimes years of form filling and arguing their case, just to get adaptions and other things they should be automatically entitled to, whilst people who need nothing and are quite capable of work, lie their way through tribunals and medical reviews, to ensure they get everything. As is becoming more and more noticeable, those who know how to "work the system" do very well out of a life on benefits, those in genuine need usually struggle and go through hell just to get the basics that they are entitled to.

Its about time we for once, changed tact on benefits claimants, scroungers who simply don't want to work, and fraudsters who pretend to have problems, not only robbing the taxpayer of money, but buiding a growing public resentment of the current incapacity/disability system.

It isnt often you will hear me say this, as I generally have little time for "the big I am" cousins over the pond, but bravo to the US for having the balls to force the change.

BBC Newsnight Report

Watch Lawrence Mead's film for Newsnight in full on Tuesday 15 February 2011 at 10.30pm on BBC Two and then afterwards on the BBC iPlayer and Newsnight website.

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#473245 - 15th Feb 2011 1:07pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: MattLFC]
_Ste_ Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 7th Aug 2005
Posts: 15985
Loc: New Brighton
Quote:
It appears the US system even got the teenage mothers/career mothers who feel in the UK, they can pop a kid out every 7 years and have a right never to work...

withthat

This should be interesting smile
_________________________


http://www.youtube.com/user/stetopop

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#473286 - 15th Feb 2011 2:31pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: MattLFC]
philmch Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 27th Dec 2007
Posts: 324
Loc: Wirral
If it wasn't for the unemployed, the DSS would be out of a job. And let us not forget that billions of taxpayers' money is wasted on rubbish such as "defence".

Leave the honest scrounger alone and target those who deliberately defraud the system by claiming for non-existent kids and such like. And certainly don't give benefits to so-called "asylum seekers".

Work kills. Do less. Live more.

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#473297 - 15th Feb 2011 2:47pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: MattLFC]
_Ste_ Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 7th Aug 2005
Posts: 15985
Loc: New Brighton
That is not the attitude to have.
Work less, live more?
So were do people get the money for nice things, clothes etc?
My hobby is fixing up old cars, if I didn't work I wouldn't be able to do that, even on my day off I'm working on my own cars, I don't get how people can enjoy 'lazing around' at home.
I'm all for this.
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#473298 - 15th Feb 2011 2:50pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: MattLFC]
_Ste_ Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 7th Aug 2005
Posts: 15985
Loc: New Brighton
I also think there should be a cap on scroungers having any kids! snob
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#473302 - 15th Feb 2011 3:01pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: philmch]
BandyCoot Offline

Forum Veteran

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 5346
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: philmch
If it wasn't for the unemployed, the DSS would be out of a job. And let us not forget that billions of taxpayers' money is wasted on rubbish such as "defence".

Leave the honest scrounger alone and target those who deliberately defraud the system by claiming for non-existent kids and such like. And certainly don't give benefits to so-called "asylum seekers".

Work kills. Do less. Live more.


"Money wasted on defence?" I don't think so. I was around during the Cold War and you wouldn't believe how vulnerable we would have been with our defence shield. Even now we can't do without our forces but it looks like we are going to have to. You really must think your argument through.
_________________________
Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.

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#473305 - 15th Feb 2011 3:06pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: MattLFC]
Nelzy84 Offline
Forum Guardian

Registered: 21st Dec 2010
Posts: 3354
Loc: Wirral
If i have to go to work Graft, and give up a third of wages to tax, i don't see why anyone else should sit on their arse's spending my hard earned tax contribution,

Doleites get on my nerves and take take from society. Unless their medically unfit they should get of their lazy arses and get a job
I haven't issue with Asylum seekers as long as there not scrounging and contribute to the economy and contribute to reducing our tax deficits that the clown in goverment have ran up.

People then moan about foreigners taking our jobs, fair play to them if there prepared to come to the country and do all the jobs the dolietes consider themselves to good for or too lazy to do their loss

They can't have it both ways

Speaking from first hand experience me and my fiance struggled to get a mortgage because the banks were being more stringent on money leading after having their fingers burnt by balloon heads overlending with no capabilities to ever pay the debt back. Again did it the hard way, went to work, saved my b*llo**s off to get a 20k deposit.

If there weren't so many scroungers the average joes tax bill would be less and there'd be more money to put towards NHS and youth schemes rather than reducing bobbies on the beat and closing youth centres

The country gets on my T**s
_________________________


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#473308 - 15th Feb 2011 3:12pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: MattLFC]
BandyCoot Offline

Forum Veteran

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 5346
Loc: Birkenhead
Well done on that netzy, hope you're happy in your gaff. You won't half feel the rewards later in life.
Agree on the out and out scroungers. Sometimes people need a lift up, was out of work myself in the 70's for 10 months, hated it but there were no jobs anywhere doing anything. We must get out of the Government will pay for everything mode. It doesn't matter what crops up the answer is the Government should pay. I wonder if the ones who say it even twig that it is the taxes that pay not the Government and the more the Government lashes out for nothing then the more tax are taken of the workers. I read it a nice way they other day, "If you have a goose that is laying golden eggs then it doesn't make sense to keep beating it with a blunt instrument."
_________________________
Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.

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#473309 - 15th Feb 2011 3:13pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: MattLFC]
_Ste_ Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 7th Aug 2005
Posts: 15985
Loc: New Brighton
withthat he's the man.

Now I'd best et back to work before my boss catches me on my phone shifty
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#473331 - 15th Feb 2011 4:11pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: philmch]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Originally Posted By: philmch


Leave the honest scrounger alone


WTF is an honest scrounger?
_________________________
Carpe diem.

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#473337 - 15th Feb 2011 4:38pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: MattLFC]
Nelzy84 Offline
Forum Guardian

Registered: 21st Dec 2010
Posts: 3354
Loc: Wirral
Nice one lads, Ste, likewise mate haha, were all entitled to a break us hard workers laugh
_________________________


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#473340 - 15th Feb 2011 4:42pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: MattLFC]
Nelzy84 Offline
Forum Guardian

Registered: 21st Dec 2010
Posts: 3354
Loc: Wirral
Bandycoot wise as always mate, Thanks for the kind words mate, i'm starting to reap the rewards now, and as you said its a good feeling !

I agree with where your coming from, i haven't issue with those who are activley seeking work but are in the position where no job opp's are there, that is a shi**y situation to be in, and have been there myself.

Like you said it those that abuse the assistance that take the mick and us honest chaps suffer when the balloons milk the gov for all they can
_________________________


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#473341 - 15th Feb 2011 4:43pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: chriskay]
Nelzy84 Offline
Forum Guardian

Registered: 21st Dec 2010
Posts: 3354
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: chriskay
Originally Posted By: philmch


Leave the honest scrounger alone


WTF is an honest scrounger?

Chris, spot on mate, i'll second that
_________________________


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#473364 - 15th Feb 2011 5:31pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: MattLFC]
StuyMac Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 24th Nov 2003
Posts: 12002
Loc: Wirralshire
The problem is the people who are playing the system. There needs to be a better system in place to see who is fit for work etc.

I have someone on my facebook, which Im unsure why I still have them there, but they make my blood boil!

Perfectly fit to work, but has 2 childeren, no job, and lives off benefits - their facebook status is constantly going on abotu PS3s, new 50" TVs, holidays, days out, and complaining that they cant afford better!!!

I have no idea why they dont work, maybe the childcare would come out of wages etc, but isnt that a consideration to take when you have childeren?

Maybe when they start school, they may have "time" for work, but I doubt it - it will be too much like "hard work!" somad
_________________________


What If There Were No Hypothetical Questions?

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#473376 - 15th Feb 2011 6:01pm Re: Work Or Lose Your Benefits - Why It Could Work! [Re: MattLFC]
StuyMac Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 24th Nov 2003
Posts: 12002
Loc: Wirralshire
Noone would know who it was anyway tease
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What If There Were No Hypothetical Questions?

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