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#462348 - 16th Jan 2011 12:36am Wanted: Kitcar or project (classic or track car)
anniebo28 Offline
Wise One

Registered: 7th Aug 2006
Posts: 831
Loc: Birkenhead
Im after a new project to keep me out the Pub.
Im looking for a kitcar, classic car or another project, i.e. an engine conversion, rally / race car ect...
Anything considered really, give me a shout with what you have.

P.S. don't think your project is too weird, I have been thinking about mid engine 4x4 track cars, monster trucks, dragsters and even a Q boat replica from James Bond The World Is Not Enough. lol

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#462420 - 16th Jan 2011 11:47am Re: Wanted: Kitcar or project (classic or track car) [Re: anniebo28]
dan0h Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 27th Aug 2010
Posts: 309
Loc: Wallasey
Its about as bizarre a kit car as man can get
-> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DJ-CHARGER-1-/160528205252?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item25603a05c4

But it'll finish for pennies, looks to have everything (including a spare engine), and be a hilariously weirdly cool project.

Sling the Alfa 4-pot and find yourself a rear-ended Subaru, or they are now cheap enough as donor cars, and build it up as a Turbo. Megasquirt engine management would run it without a hitch, if you do stay with the Alfa engine (don't waste any moments of your life on carb's, they are bin-fodder) I can advise you on the Megasquirt if you need as I've been down that road a few times before smile

That should keep you clear of any bars!
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#462428 - 16th Jan 2011 12:12pm Re: Wanted: Kitcar or project (classic or track car) [Re: anniebo28]
anniebo28 Offline
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Registered: 7th Aug 2006
Posts: 831
Loc: Birkenhead
I have seen this, been looking on ebay for a few weeks for a new project.
I have just contacted a company about them doing some fab work for me on a twin engine, turbo, vauxhall nova project. Ive always fancied a twin red top set up, twin 6 speeds, both turbo'd.
Should find out if they want to take on such a challenge later this week. I want them to do the major metal fab for me and I will do the rest

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#462449 - 16th Jan 2011 1:21pm Re: Wanted: Kitcar or project (classic or track car) [Re: anniebo28]
dan0h Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 27th Aug 2010
Posts: 309
Loc: Wallasey
The problem with Twin engine cars is the law of diminishing returns, two engines are very rarely better than one, unless you're into tractor pulling. I've been at pretty much every TOTB tuner shoot out, and I've never yet seen a Twin-engine car walk away with the overall prize (being as we did with Rocket Ronnie's GTR!)

As an example, during my Skyline tuning era a few years ago, we raced a 650hp GTR (RB26, 2.8 Step 2 HKS Stroker, Trust T78 @ 1.6 bar) against a twin engine Nova, claimed at 400hp per engine (car was matt black, can't recall the guy's name though) - we clowned it hands down with a car that weighed a ton and a half, and had just a single engine. I believe he wanted a rematch, but on the suggestion that the GTR could actually run 1.8-2.0 bar, he declined.

Further more, MOT regulations (or road traffic, I can't recall which) state that you cannot have two engines in operation in a road car, only one at a time, not to mention the agro of running two engines, you'll never know which one is doing the pushing and which the pulling. They'll rarely be properly balanced.

If you're dead set on a two-engine special, then good luck with it smile I'd be more inclined (if you want something Nova based) to build a mid-engined Nova with a Turbo Red top, or a twin Turbo V6 based on the Omega engine.

Clip here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoQc3R4rJWU
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#462490 - 16th Jan 2011 3:31pm Re: Wanted: Kitcar or project (classic or track car) [Re: dan0h]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9798
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: dan0h
Further more, MOT regulations (or road traffic, I can't recall which) state that you cannot have two engines in operation in a road car, only one at a time, not to mention the agro of running two engines, you'll never know which one is doing the pushing and which the pulling. They'll rarely be properly balanced.


That must have been changed now, some electric vehicles have separate motors for each drive wheel. Also some hybrids have electric and carbon engines running together.

I also can't see a great problem with balancing two engines to a reasonable degree. Every multiple carburettor or multi injection engine is effectively a number of independent engines.
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#462509 - 16th Jan 2011 4:25pm Re: Wanted: Kitcar or project (classic or track car) [Re: diggingdeeper]
MrPhil Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 14th Apr 2006
Posts: 2367
Loc: Prenton
Originally Posted By: diggingdeeper
Originally Posted By: dan0h
Further more, MOT regulations (or road traffic, I can't recall which) state that you cannot have two engines in operation in a road car, only one at a time, not to mention the agro of running two engines, you'll never know which one is doing the pushing and which the pulling. They'll rarely be properly balanced.


That must have been changed now, some electric vehicles have separate motors for each drive wheel. Also some hybrids have electric and carbon engines running together.

I also can't see a great problem with balancing two engines to a reasonable degree. Every multiple carburettor or multi injection engine is effectively a number of independent engines.


Dan is indeed correct.

http://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/378669-twin-engined-cars.html
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#462545 - 16th Jan 2011 6:06pm Re: Wanted: Kitcar or project (classic or track car) [Re: anniebo28]
dan0h Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 27th Aug 2010
Posts: 309
Loc: Wallasey
Good link MrPhil!

To me also, twin engine cars are pretty pointless, its a lot of weight to drag around, and fuel system nightmares, gearbox nightmares and all manner of complexities await, with little or no gain over a car with a single decent engine. Then of course theres weight issues, power distribution front to rear issues that could make it handle VERY cheeky indeed.

What happens when you miss a gear change on the rear engine mid corner at full bore? It'll spit you off pretty fast. It's a brave and interesting engineering project certainly, but its real world applications are minimal, if any. Just trying to save you a lot of time and energy. One year at TOTB we heard all the threats from a twin V6 engined golf (Baby blue colour, pretty good on the drag but that was about it) and yet again we handed his butt back to him in every event. (Its multi-discipline event of top speed, 1/4 mile and handling track.)

Surely a turbo Red top would do at least 500hp without too much stress on a decent crank and rods? What more do you need in a nova!?
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#462549 - 16th Jan 2011 6:15pm Re: Wanted: Kitcar or project (classic or track car) [Re: diggingdeeper]
dan0h Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 27th Aug 2010
Posts: 309
Loc: Wallasey
Originally Posted By: diggingdeeper
I also can't see a great problem with balancing two engines to a reasonable degree. Every multiple carburettor or multi injection engine is effectively a number of independent engines.


And that is very true, however, those individual cylinders all culminate at the same wheels - in a twin engine car, an engine imbalance will also affect the drive distribution - with disastrous results easily possible.

What would be interesting, was if there were a very sophisticated drive-line control system of some kind that could dynamically alter the output of each engine based on the difference between steering angle, and actual direction of travel, an active power train. However, this has of course been done before, in the very car that we raced against the Nova. The Skyline utilises Nissan ATTESA-ETS (Advanced Total Traction Engineering System for All - Electronic Torque Split), to send power to the front wheels when needed.

Good luck whatever you choose as your project though, its sure to be an interesting one smile


Edited by dan0h (16th Jan 2011 6:22pm)
Edit Reason: added the blard about Nissan ATTESA-ETS.
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#462574 - 16th Jan 2011 7:41pm Re: Wanted: Kitcar or project (classic or track car) [Re: anniebo28]
sean Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 26th Jun 2005
Posts: 541
Loc: prenton
i'm selling my scooby in a month's time if you're interested

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#462575 - 16th Jan 2011 7:44pm Re: Wanted: Kitcar or project (classic or track car) [Re: anniebo28]
anniebo28 Offline
Wise One

Registered: 7th Aug 2006
Posts: 831
Loc: Birkenhead
Whats the spec and price? Im really after a going concern but it could always be played around with. Im also after a daily driver so could be used for that.

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