Our Success is in our members who value our strength as a valued community.
Forum Stats
12137 Members
65 Forums
72391 Topics
976101 Posts
33 posts in the last 24hrs
Max Online: 7831 @ 8th Apr 2013 4:18pm
Who's Online - Click Me
14 registered (4 invisible), 207 Guests and 108 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


(Views 7days)This Weeks Most Read
Wirral Globe 603
HMT Lancastria 443
Another Big Waste Fire in Liverpool. 406
Name help 390
Vet help 315
Vet help 300
Another tree down on Arrowe park Road? 200
54 plate renault clio 3rd brake light 200
That was kept a bit quiet? 154
Mobile mechanic needed to fit a wishbone 141
New General Forums
Lib/dems rule the day
by JimmyG
2nd Dec 2016 10:59pm
Daft funny joke
by venice
2nd Dec 2016 5:54pm
We dont learn much.
by venice
1st Dec 2016 9:22pm
Freegle
by venice
1st Dec 2016 6:36pm
New Wirral History
Name help
by Paternoster21
3rd Dec 2016 8:03am
HMT Lancastria
by granny
2nd Dec 2016 11:38pm
Cubitts Holland and Hannen
by fish5133
27th Nov 2016 5:38pm
Fire station
by chris7777
22nd Nov 2016 12:24pm
Buy a house in Greasby for 12s a week - in 1935
by yoller
6th Oct 2016 6:56pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
fireworks on the Mersey last night
Hadlow train station
Topic Replies
Blank Page : Offline
by Mark
Vet help
by diggingdeeper
10:50 PM
RIP Peter Vaughan
by Mark
10:00 PM
Talk Talk Security Breach
by Mark
09:59 PM
Iphone 5s, Grey, near mint condition, 50
by anniebo28
09:39 PM
Mobile mechanic needed to fit a wishbone
by anniebo28
07:30 PM
That was kept a bit quiet?
by diggingdeeper
06:19 PM
Another tree down on Arrowe park Road?
by fish5133
02:13 PM
MIG welder
by vw_kyle
01:49 PM
December
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Wirral TUC Meeting re Update on Wallasey CLP Suspe
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:16pm
World Aids Day Event 2016. Liverpool
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:05pm
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#439416 - 26th Oct 2010 6:27pm Bidston Moss flyover
detsi Offline
Addict

Registered: 6th Feb 2010
Posts: 225
Loc: wallasey
Does anyone know what on earth is going on? I've been told that the Eiffel Tower and the network of the London sewers were built in a shorter spell of time than these flyover repairs have taken so far.
_________________________
Clones are people two !

Top
Wirral Info : Advertising
Click me for more Information......


Looking for a Service / Tradesman? Look in our Local Business Directory. Click Me
#439460 - 26th Oct 2010 9:10pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: detsi]
Bezzymate Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 24th Apr 2010
Posts: 5551
Loc: New New Brighton
Good point.I think they go on till 2012 though!

Top
#439477 - 26th Oct 2010 11:42pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: Bezzymate]
MattLFC Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
Thats because they are ongoing like, well... forever! The flyover has some serious issues (fundamental construction flaws) and basically needs knocking down and rebuilding from scratch. I did read a good report on the issues and why they exist etc a few years back, they had done feasability studies on alternatives but alas it will never get knocked down

Everytime they work on it they say it will fix it long-term and then 6-18 months later its being worked on again!

What is really pissing me off atm is the mess
that is the New Ferry bypass, absolutely pathetic state of affairs!

Top
#439481 - 26th Oct 2010 11:55pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: MattLFC]
cathie Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 19th Feb 2009
Posts: 448
Loc: Birkenhead
New Ferry bypass is the biggest pisser...seriously gettin on my t**s now somad

Top
#439490 - 27th Oct 2010 12:31am Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: cathie]
tigertiger1953 Offline

Smartchild

Registered: 5th Sep 2010
Posts: 459
Loc: wirral
Well it's not rocket science but somehow the 1970's engineers and their successors seemed oblivious to the fact that Bidston moss was a marsh and you can't build on a marsh. Also the box sections they used have since acquired a reputation similar to that of the staircases Barrett's fitted in their 1970s homes.
As well said by Matt........knock it down and start again.

Top
#439514 - 27th Oct 2010 7:29am Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: detsi]
MikeT Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 23rd Apr 2010
Posts: 539
Loc: Canary Islands :)
Originally Posted By: detsi
Does anyone know what on earth is going on? I've been told that the Eiffel Tower and the network of the London sewers were built in a shorter spell of time than these flyover repairs have taken so far.
It was built using box section steel, experimental at the time, and which has been used successfully in warmer climates. But no-one factored in the Brit weather, so it started rotting from day one. Since the engineers realised it was corroding away it's been an ongoing process of patching it up when, as others say, it would have been cheaper and quicker to knock the bloody thing down and rebuild.

Top
#439555 - 27th Oct 2010 1:33pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: MikeT]
Pinzgauer
Unregistered


Yes, as well said in previous posts, time for a new one. Only this time GET IT RIGHT !!!

The box section sketch was disaster. It had to beefed up after only a year or so following a collapse of a similar structure in Oz (?). Piles driven into boggy ground are a waste of (our) money unless they are down to bedrock, no matter how deep you have to go. The old "proper" railway engineers new this in the 1800's.

Build a new viaduct alongside the "old" one, then blow the old one up. A couple of penny bangers should do it !!

Who pays for it ? Well the original architect, specifiers, contractors or their descendants of course. They made megabucks out a shoddy job at our expence.

Rant over. Where's dem pills ?

Top
#439558 - 27th Oct 2010 2:33pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: ]
Stegga Offline

Addict

Registered: 28th Feb 2009
Posts: 259
Loc: woodchurch
In the early 80's I worked with a couple of blokes who were involved in the pile driving for this bridge when it was first built. I remember them saying that in certain places they would position one of the piles, start the pile driver and it would drive it straight in with just a couple of whacks, it literally fell into the ground. "I'll never forget the "shhloooooop" noise they made as they just disapeared" were his words.
Don't hold your breath on this one being the fix to end all fixes.

Top
#439559 - 27th Oct 2010 2:46pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: Stegga]
Pinzgauer
Unregistered


Well Stegga, that just about says it all eh ??

Top
#439672 - 28th Oct 2010 11:58am Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: ]
tigertiger1953 Offline

Smartchild

Registered: 5th Sep 2010
Posts: 459
Loc: wirral
I heard similar tales at the time of building it. The bottomless marsh and the box sections rusting from the inside quicker than a Montego explains it all. But who designed it and who sanctioned the work? Obviously these people arfe living (if alive) on fat pensions while the rest of us pick up the bill for repair after repair.

Top
#439702 - 28th Oct 2010 3:11pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: tigertiger1953]
Nigel Offline

Wise One

Registered: 26th Mar 2010
Posts: 850
Loc: Wirral
withthat
_________________________
O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever ...

Top
#439887 - 29th Oct 2010 10:08am Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: Nigel]
detsi Offline
Addict

Registered: 6th Feb 2010
Posts: 225
Loc: wallasey
It must be costing an absolute fortune. Costains have teams of men and machinery utilised. Who is paying for this and where is the money coming from?
_________________________
Clones are people two !

Top
#439898 - 29th Oct 2010 11:49am Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: detsi]
little_pob Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 30th May 2008
Posts: 442
Loc: Upton
Originally Posted By: detsi
It must be costing an absolute fortune. Costains have teams of men and machinery utilised. Who is paying for this and where is the money coming from?

I don't recall seeing the usual signage saying who the contractors are working on behalf of. So, at a guess, the Highways Agency through general taxation. (IIRC, road tax is no longer ring fenced.)

Although the council and Merseytravel may be responsible for some of the cost as the motorway ends part way across the flyover.


Edited by little_pob (29th Oct 2010 11:52am)
Edit Reason: typo

Top
#506872 - 23rd Apr 2011 11:34am Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: detsi]
wallaseyjohn Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 23rd Apr 2011
Posts: 21
Loc: Wallasey
I live within a few minutes walk of this epic failure.

I have also randomly come into contact with someone who claimed to have been involved in designing the flyovers around the Wirral. With my experience of them being, they've been in repair my entire life, I'm not sure if I'd have mentioned it personally. He was indeed living in a nice house, quite a good distance from Bidston Moss.

Every time I've seen it recently I've been wandering if it is being used as some kind of money suck project.

I barely EVER see anyone actually working down there - even realising the work needs doing inside the sections, there'll be one or two guys wandering around.

The scaffolding alone is immense. That must be chewing through money if it's being rented.

I would like some explanation of what they're actually doing, particularly if the council is paying any money towards it. You could indeed build a ship quicker than it's taken them to weld some plates to the inside of the boxes, which is what I've been told they're doing.

I never see anyone with a respirator on, or connected to an airline to crawl into the tubes, or any signs of welding.

If the entire underside of the boxes is scaffolded, does this mean sections of it are now rotted so badly a guy could fall through them?

Steel is used out at sea. The solution is usually to fix sacrificial blocks to the hull and paint it. Not weld bits on as it falls apart.

Top
#506935 - 23rd Apr 2011 1:10pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: detsi]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9559
Loc: Birkenhead
There's a lot to be said for arches, much more tolerant of movement in the foundations. I don't know why they haven't put arched supports under the existing spans. Box section bridges are renowned for problems.

I'm amazed they have corrosion problems, there are enough products out there to resolve water ingress.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Mod 
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Talk Talk Security Breach
by fish5133
06:19 PM
Mobile mechanic needed to fit a wishbone
by anniebo28
6th Dec 2016 7:13pm
Vet help
by colin86
6th Dec 2016 6:25pm
Another tree down on Arrowe park Road?
by Davefabo
6th Dec 2016 11:08am
Game shocking prices!!!
by eddtheduck
5th Dec 2016 4:55pm
For Sale & Free
Iphone 5s, Grey, near mint condition, 50
by anniebo28
Yesterday at 07:40 PM
Roberts Concerto 2 CD Player For Visually Impaired
by Tranquil
6th Dec 2016 10:05pm
Gaming chair
by monsterz4
6th Dec 2016 8:27pm
MIG welder
by anniebo28
6th Dec 2016 1:34am
IPhone 4s 16gb 35
by anniebo28
4th Dec 2016 12:45pm
Featured Member
Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 20962
Newest Members
lucyw, BarbaraL, SherryLover, missyb, DavidSharpe
12137 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Gymnastics coaches needed.
by margy
3rd Dec 2016 9:28pm
Wirral Globe
by locomotive
1st Dec 2016 6:25pm
Wirral TUC Meeting re Update on Wallasey CLP Suspe
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:16pm
World Aids Day Event 2016. Liverpool
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:05pm
A job. Company not named.
by venice
30th Nov 2016 6:30pm
News : New Topics
RIP Peter Vaughan
by diggingdeeper
Yesterday at 04:22 AM
That was kept a bit quiet?
by venice
6th Dec 2016 11:25am
Another tree down on Arrowe park Road?
by Davefabo
6th Dec 2016 11:08am
Bunchems Xmas present warning
by venice
6th Dec 2016 9:28am
Another Big Waste Fire in Liverpool.
by Wally1
4th Dec 2016 10:24am
New Enthusiast Forums
Talk Talk Security Breach
by fish5133
Yesterday at 06:19 PM
Mobile mechanic needed to fit a wishbone
by anniebo28
6th Dec 2016 7:13pm
Vet help
by colin86
6th Dec 2016 6:25pm
Game shocking prices!!!
by eddtheduck
5th Dec 2016 4:55pm
54 plate renault clio 3rd brake light
by Mike72
1st Dec 2016 12:52pm
(Views 24hrs)Trending Newest Topics
Vet help 300
Talk Talk Security Breach 109
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Thu 8:15am
Sunset Thu 3:53pm
Local Time Thu 9:43am
WikiWirral Can . . . .