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#427694 - 28th Aug 2010 12:20pm TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW
Neil_c Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 27th Sep 2009
Posts: 417
Loc: birkenhead
Bit of an awkward problem Iíve had with my car.
Few years ago I started to get a very slight judder on braking with discs and pads that had been fitted on the car for over a year. I replaced the discs for drilled and grooved that Iíd bought off the ĎBay and the pads were decent (champion I think) from Halfords.

Problem seemed to go away but returned a few months later. I tried replacing the brake reaction bushes (one hell of a nasty job), but the problem still remained.

Ended up taking the car to Haliwell Jones BMW and paid the diag fee. They suspected the ball joints and replaced them. This still didnít cure the problem and they blamed the ďafter market discs and padsĒ. After a bit of a legal battle I got the money back, but it still left me with the problem.

Called a few garages including Trenics in Queensferry who suggested a replace of the discs and pads. Replaced these yesterday with Brembo discs and Mintex pads, but the problem still appears.

Sort of running out of options with it now. Iíve tried different profile tyres, but with the fronts; they have to be low otherwise the wheel will hit the sill when the steering is fully locked as the car was lowered about 12 years ago.

The only other thing I think it might be is the wheel hubs, but E36ís never suffered much with bad hubs. Pondering taking it to the lads in Trenics as I could end up replacing bits until the cows come home.

Any ideas?

Thanks.


Edited by Neil_c (28th Aug 2010 12:22pm)

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#427700 - 28th Aug 2010 12:40pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: Neil_c]
chris_gilly Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 15th Feb 2009
Posts: 1950
Loc: tranmere
when was the fluid last changed? how many pots are the calipers?

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#427701 - 28th Aug 2010 1:03pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: chris_gilly]
Neil_c Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 27th Sep 2009
Posts: 417
Loc: birkenhead
Changed the fluid only a couple of months ago. Completely replaced both front callipers. When I took the old pads off both sides seemed about the same thickness so I think it would be unlikely that the brakes are binding.

Seemed a bit odd that I got the judder within only 5 miles on new pads and discs.

Thanks.

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#427702 - 28th Aug 2010 1:28pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: Neil_c]
chris_gilly Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 15th Feb 2009
Posts: 1950
Loc: tranmere
is it defo judering at the front, possibilitys of it being rear?

wishbones & mounts ok? steering rack free of play, wheel bearings ok?

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#427705 - 28th Aug 2010 1:32pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: chris_gilly]
StuyMac Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 24th Nov 2003
Posts: 12002
Loc: Wirralshire
Put a runout gauge on the disks, then try the hubs.

I had a similar issue when I got my E61 - replaced the rear disks after a run out gauge showed they where not running true, but the problem was still there. So I then put the gauge on te hub face and there was still run out, so I replaced it, and that solved the problem. If you cant find any run out on those then it will be a bush somewhere.
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#427717 - 28th Aug 2010 2:19pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: StuyMac]
Neil_c Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 27th Sep 2009
Posts: 417
Loc: birkenhead
It could be the rear, but I would suspect it be unlikely as I have to go over 50mph and brake to notice. In doing this, the car would load most of its weight on the front.

I've never used a run-out gauge before. Are they cheap to buy? If not, can they be loaned?

I was worried about putting the new discs on and finding the hub was out and it damaging the discs again, but I've only driven it about 15 miles since replacing the brakes so I hope they'd be ok.

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#427734 - 28th Aug 2010 4:34pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: Neil_c]
MrPhil Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 14th Apr 2006
Posts: 2367
Loc: Prenton
Dial Test Indicator is what you need to check the discs, with base they come to around £30 for an okish one or failing that if you know any engineers who has one as to borrow it.

To check the run out take the wheel off then put the wheel nuts back on.

Use the magnetic base on the strut then place the DTI on the face of the disc and measure the run out.

If all os ok then set the DTI so it's in the clamping face of the disc and the DTI feeler on the friction part of the disc and compare if it out.

here's a link to a cheap one...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dial-Test-Indicato...ng_Tools_Levels


Edited by MrPhil (28th Aug 2010 4:39pm)
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#427743 - 28th Aug 2010 5:09pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: MrPhil]
Neil_c Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 27th Sep 2009
Posts: 417
Loc: birkenhead
Thanks very much for all the advice guys. Do you reckon I leave driving it until I can test the run-out to ensure the new discs don't get damaged?

Neil.

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#429755 - 7th Sep 2010 10:26pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: Neil_c]
Neil_c Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 27th Sep 2009
Posts: 417
Loc: birkenhead
Think I found the problem, not that you really need a dial indicator to see it. Seems that the disc retaining bolt had become stuck in the past so some garage just whizzered it off, damaging the hub in the process.

This causes the edge of the hub to be out by a very great deal. The inside of the hub is very near true.

When I rotated the wheel with the brake gear attached you could actually hear and feel the difference in friction as one side was noticably higher than the other as the disc moved through the pads.

Replacing the hub seems a logical place to start. Do you reckon a scrap yard hub would be of acceptable quality? Would it be worth dial indicating it first before purchase?

Thanks,

Neil.


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Edited by Neil_c (7th Sep 2010 10:29pm)

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#429757 - 7th Sep 2010 10:47pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: Neil_c]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9787
Loc: Birkenhead
Have you checked the price new, surprisingly cheap sometimes, but surprisingly dear at others wink
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In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#429758 - 7th Sep 2010 10:51pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: diggingdeeper]
Neil_c Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 27th Sep 2009
Posts: 417
Loc: birkenhead
Will make some enquires tomorrow. It's always been a bit wick to get the disc aligned without the retaining screw. It may not fix the wheel wobble, but it defo looks like a good place to start.

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#429764 - 7th Sep 2010 11:05pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: Neil_c]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9787
Loc: Birkenhead
Rear hub is just under £55 at eurocarparts.

Used hubs are £29 on fleabay.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#429767 - 7th Sep 2010 11:13pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: diggingdeeper]
Neil_c Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 27th Sep 2009
Posts: 417
Loc: birkenhead
cool thanks. I was going to call Haliwell, but they'd want $$$. I might ask my bro's mate in Neptune.

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#429769 - 7th Sep 2010 11:20pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: Neil_c]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9787
Loc: Birkenhead
Disc retaining bolt is probably £341.47 + VAT lol.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#429771 - 7th Sep 2010 11:23pm Re: TreSlight judder when braking. E36 BMW [Re: diggingdeeper]
Neil_c Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 27th Sep 2009
Posts: 417
Loc: birkenhead
Fleabay have a new one for £30. Might try Senars too as it's good to get local in case it needs to go back.

Realoem is good. To check your part numbers and diagrams etc:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...hg=31&fg=10


Edited by Neil_c (7th Sep 2010 11:27pm)

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