Forums Forums National News BROWN HAS GONE

Maggie did some very funny things with the laws of this country.

A good example of that was to pick on one group of essential workers and force them to work without pay instead of correctly negotiating the problem, this has only partly been corrected in the last year or two.

That was something I was made to do during the 80's for an extra £10 on my dole.Thatcher robbed us of our Industry and we have NEVER recovered,hard working men and women gave us what we have today with help from the unions,if we had no Labour party we would not have free health care,free education for EVERYBODY and equality for all,The Tories would still hjave us putting kids up chimneys and the destitute in workhouses to line their pockets.

Chris.

And i dont get no bus pass?!

Any laws introduced by any government previous to 1997, could have been removed or ammended to suit the New Labour ideology. Any laws that still stand un-ammended, or were not removed/canged until after the first term in office, show that the Labour government agreed with them. Labour had a landslide majority in the first term, so they have no excuses im afraid.

Are you taking the piss, or do you just not understand the real world? Over 19? Fook off, you can pay for your college education. Want to go to University? Well we have a lovely thing called Tuition fee's.

I do love watching the shit Labour supporters spout, its hilarious, all over Facebook there are completely unsubstantiated claims and lies about what the Torys are going to do, and what Labour did or would have done.

Labour supporters saying they are looking forward to higher taxes and NI, this is one of the main "copy & pastes" doing the rounds on there within Labour fans right now... hold on one minute, if they had any idea, they would understand that the Conservative Party has always been the party of lower taxation, and the only NI increase in sight, was announced in the March 2010 Labour budget, and aggressively and publically opposed by the Conservative Party.

The reason being, these people have no real idea about politics, they just say what they think they know an hat their mates have told them or what their smilarly un-initiated parents have said, they are the same type of people who didnt have a clue who Nick Clegg was until 4 weeks ago, and it seems all the Labour fans on Facebook are like this, if this is the standard of young Labour voters, then I fear for our future, because obviously they are voting completely unaware of who stands for what, if they don't even have any idea about a Labour policy that has been constantly in the headlines for the past 6 weeks lol. How can you support, nevermind vote for, a party, if you have no idea or knowledge of their ideology, history and current manifesto and proposals?

Have you seen the full process to change the law, it is extremely complicated and drawn out and has a pretty fragile route on its way.

I don't think Labour have been a brilliant Government, Brown was pretty good as Chancellor of the Exchequer, Blair was good up to the point that Bernie Eccleston managed to control him, that unfortunately blew his authority and credibility.

I am fearful of the Conservatives, there basic philosophy seems to do something "at all costs".

There is a long list of countries in a worse state than ours, we are in the fortunate position that if we go, we take a few other major players with us, therefore we have support to prevent that happening.

I am not pro-Labour but I am anti-Tory and pro-F.Field

Labour has got Mandelson, Ed Balls, Miliband and Darling, none of which I have any faith or trust in.

EDIT - might as well add Jack Straw to that list as well

Mandelson, ah yes, another unelected rogue, who was pretty much the second person in charge of our country for the past 2 years. Miliband, as far as im concerned (im assuming your on about David), is a complete and utter prick. Balls is by name, by nature, talks a load of bollox and too close to Gordon Brown. Darling, im not so sure, I used to think he was just a weak member of the cabinet, but he is probably one of the few Labour MP's who has shown any guts and balls, and honesty, since the global recession. My respect for him has grown considerably since he became Chancellor.

Frank Field, I like him very much, but the Labour Party seem to hate him?? Alan Johnson would make a more suitable Labour Party leader than anyone else within the party (that im aware of at least), being an ex-trade unionist, though I feel he could be interpreted as a bit too "old Labour" for the parties liking. He seems the proper no bullshit, stand up for what you believe in type of guy, which I think could be good for Labour going forward. The excessive spin and lies from the outgoing Labour government has unfortunately, killed any chance of the electorate trusting any New Labour-type leader or party.

Glad we agree on that - I am afraid I haven't got a clue who is/was in the shadow cabinet.

Don't like Darling because of the darling Report.

Used to like Geoff Hoon - he used to make sound decisions and talk sense, but once promoted he soon found out he got stomped on when he expressed his own opinion and so just started towing the line and licking the appropriate places.

Geoff Hoon stepped down at the 2010 election, and just a few weeks before that, was caught by Channel 4's Dispatches programme trying to make money out of his influence and contacts within the Labour Party, so has been suspended - it shows how shady some polititians can be when you scratch beneath the surface.

Im glad Cameron got in at long last, but id have preferred David Davis if im honest. Time will tell if Cameron is a good PM or not, but I do have faith in him, and the country could be onto something good with this right-left coalition, because anything too extreme for the left, should be kept in check by the Liberal Democrats, so we won't turn into a completely right-wing country, though having said that, New Labour was pretty right-wing anyway.

In fact, if im completely honest, id have preferred Portillo as PM, Hague as deputy, Davis as Home Secratary and Clarke as Chancellor... but in the words of the great Boris Johnsons, "ive had enough it", so no more insight into my Tory dream team lol.

The Geoff Hoon thing looked very much like a deal to me, he took the role of fall guy, then suddenly appeared higher up the system not that long after.

I agree with a lot that Cameron says, but it is the "suits" that will control what actually happens, and they are very right-wing.

We need a good nationalist - bring back Enoch Powell, despite the "racist" picture spread - he certainly wasn't, in fact he did quite a lot of major work that proves he wasn't racist. His heart was in the nation. Which other Tory MP could get the dockers fighting on his side!

Never "get" Portillo, I swear he suffers from a bipolar disorder, he appears to have two faces.

Hague has come on loads - he was a pratt at one time.

Its good when you see politicians move on in the right direction, Ken Livingston being one. Many of the rest appear to be career people, they do what they have to do for their career, not the good of the nation.

Think I've just about exhausted my knowledge

So the Tories are having to amend their manifesto that the British public voted on to accommodate the Libs who, with some 50 odd seats, can now add in part of their manifesto.

The Tory manifesto isn't worth the paper its written on even before Cameroon went to the Queen!

Good start to governing!

The Tories and Lib Dems combined had almost 18 million votes from a 29 million turnout. That is a pretty good mandate for the two parties, considering Labour only got 9.5 million vs the Conservatives 8.7 million of a possible 27 million back in 2005.

As you are obviously a Labour supporter, do you care to explain to me, how a Lib-Lab or Lab-only government would have exceeded this majority? The only way they could have come close to equalling such a national mandate, would be by giving every other party, including the SNP and PC, a chance to form part of the government, and with the Tories being 2.1 million votes ahead of Labour in the election, they still would not have surpassed them in the popular vote.

With powers to NI, Wales and Scotland pretty much devolved, and with the Conservatives all but wiping out the Lib Dems and Labour in the English constituencies, I think the correct government is in charge. It's not a UK government we ned in Westminster, its an English government, Westministers powers over Scotland and Wales in particular, are very limited, and id have been pretty pissed off to see even more influence in English affairs from the Scottish Labour Party, SNP and PC than we currently have to put up with.

England voted Conservative, that's what they have got, there were some area's that voted Labour/Lib-Dem, and the Lib Dems will represent the left-wing voters in the next government. It could not have turned out better for either side with regars fairness - Had the Lib Dems coalitioned with Labour, the government would be left-wing only, and Labour were never going to partner with the Conservatives. A left-wing only government would be impossible and downright scandelous in a supposed democratic country (England) where the majority of the electorate have just voted for a right-wing party.

Not to mention the fact the Labour government had run its course, and where tired and pretty much deflated, one of the reasons the Lib Dems "claim" thay they could not continue talks with Labour, was because they just did not have any enthusiasm or real interest in taking the country forward as a coalition in partnership with the Lib Dems. Maybe Labour, and the heads of the party in particular, were in some way giving up?

In my view if i had to have a bet on which 2 parties would of got into bed with each other, it would have been Lab/Lib dem.
Historically those 2 parties have more in common, after all the Dem part was ex Labour party members and are supposedly still a form of right wing Laborites. The fact is we have a Tory/Lib pact and it shouldn't be knocked until its had its chance to govern and we will see what it can do.
It has been reported that the Labour party has shown no enthusiasm for forming a government with the Lib Dems, well it was never in the Labour mandate to do so, I believe and reading between the lines the Lib dems were told they could go in with Labour but Labours policies wouldn't change.
On the other hand if i was a member of the Tory party i would now be very disappointed, the party that had my support seems not to be carrying out the mandate i have voted for.
The only winners in this are the Lib Dems, even their supporters have cause for concern, they also are not following their mandate.
In a strange sort of way, the only ones to come out of this with their heads held high is the Labour party, they may have lost power, but they haven't sold out their supporters and voters.
So we will see, once the honeymoon period is over, something that all governments have, how things go, chances are, another general election sooner rather than later.

Im not upset, the deal looks to be quite fairly laid out, and many of the Conservative manifesto promises will remain intact, there have been adjustments and comprimises for both sides to accept however.

Im not surprised you would say the Labour party are the only party to come out of this with their heads held high, your a Labour supporter and a trade-union supporter, so it is in your nature to remain stubborn and never accept defeat. I admire you for this however, I am not trying to diss you.

Labout "tried" to talk with the Lib Dems, as I hear it, whilst the Lib Dems did not feel that Labour were fully committed to a coalition, they also offered so much to the Lib Dems that the Lib Dems believed the promises and comprimises could never be delivered by a Labour-led government (something which has become apparent during tonight on the news channels) - if anything, on this basis, Labour could be held accountable for trying to decieve the public and the Lib Dems in their final desperate attempt to cling onto power at any cost - and had they not been lying for a change, they would have pretty much completely sold-out, and we would be governed under Liberal Democrat rules, behind a Labour Party facade. The mere fact that John Prescott had urged Labour to coalition with the Liberal Democrats, shows how desperate Labour were to cling on to power.

Back to the Conservative Party giving up some points of its manifesto, maybe for once, something that Labour supporters may never understand, the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats, have acted for the good of the country, instad of just for their own party. If the Conservatives wanted, knowing full-well that Labour would never have had a strong government and probably no chance of a majority in the House Of Commons, they could have simply formed a minority government - at some point, be it today, or in a few months time when the Labour government would have eventually given in and re-run the election because they could not command a majority or their alliances or even their party were falling to bits, the Conservatives would have gained power.

May 7th, no matter how Labour supporters want to portray it, was the beginning of the end for Gordon Brown and the New Labour experiment, and it's good that the final nail in the coffin was hammered in within days, instead of a tired, failing, unpopular and distraught government carrying on for months, because it was certainly coming. Political analysts from all sides of the political spectrum seemed to agree that the magic number for the Tories was 300 seats, irrespective of a working majority or not, and even Labour's own MP's, such as Blunkett, Reid, Andy Burnham etc admitted that Labour should accept defeat, and rebuild the party for the future. In fact, even Mandelson hinted at it on election night, whilst talking to the BBC.

The only reason Labour never sold themselves out, was because of the Liberal Democrats realising Labour were just desperately trying to cling onto power by making outlandish promises they could never deliver, and had no real interest in doing so anyway, because the entire party was in disarray and a shambles, with no effective leader at the helm for some months, and certainly a party or leader in no fit state to govern a country.

Had Brown gone before the election, I think the voters and the media may have been "kinder" towards Labour, but I think the election would still have turned out in this way; indeed it may have been Brown that was Labours saving grace at the election, for people knew and understood what they would get from him, whereas Cameron is still in real terms, and a complete unknown. Had someone like David Miliband or Ed Balls become Labour Leader and PM prior to the election, they would have stood no chance. I stand by my belief that the only guy who could have seriously mounted a challenge to the Conservatives, is Alan Johnson, but I could not see Labour ever choosing him as a leader prior to this general election thanks to his old-Labour style, and he would have had to have been in before last Christmas to establish himself with the public.

The full details of the coalition agreement will be released later, but the outline goes as follows:

• There will be a "significant acceleration" of efforts to reduce the budget deficit - including £6bn of spending reductions this year. An emergency Budget will take place within 50 days.
• Plans for five-year, fixed-term parliaments, meaning the next election would not take place until May 2015.
• The Lib Dems have agreed to drop plans for a "mansion tax" on properties costing more than £2m, while the Conservatives have ditched their pledge to raise the inheritance tax threshold to £1m.
• The new administration will scrap part of Labour's planned rise in National Insurance and will work towards raising income tax thresholds for lower earners.
• A pledge to have a referendum on any further transfer of powers to the EU and a commitment from the Lib Dems not to adopt the euro for the lifetime of the next Parliament.
• The Lib Dems have agreed to Tory proposals for a cap on non-EU migration
  The Conservatives will recognise marriage in the tax system, but Lib Dems will abstain in Commons vote.
  
• The Lib Dems will drop opposition to a replacement for Britain's Trident nuclear missiles but the programme will be scrutinised for value for money.
  
• There will be a referendum on moving to the Alternative Vote system and enhanced "pupil premium" for deprived children as Lib Dems demanded.

Not quite the sell-out you are trying to portray is it Bert... things like the inheritance threshold etc, were not a major interest of many Tory supporters anyway and I think we can live without it, the mansion tax has been scrapped which is something the Tories opposed, and things like the lower taxes for lower earners and removal of the jobs tax, will benefit everyone. The Conservatives main pledges, to cut spending and waste quickly, and have an emergency budget, an immigration cap, no take-up of the Euro, the probable future of Trident, marriage tax rules etc seem to be upheld.



Source - BBC News Report