WikiWirral Wirral's Biggest Online Forum
Forum Stats
12137 Members
65 Forums
72391 Topics
976106 Posts
34 posts in the last 24hrs
Max Online: 7831 @ 8th Apr 2013 4:18pm
Who's Online - Click Me
35 registered (6 invisible), 759 Guests and 175 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


(Views 7days)This Weeks Most Read
Wirral Globe 614
HMT Lancastria 476
Another Big Waste Fire in Liverpool. 430
Name help 398
Vet help 357
Vet help 306
Another tree down on Arrowe park Road? 210
That was kept a bit quiet? 167
Talk Talk Security Breach 156
Mobile mechanic needed to fit a wishbone 155
New General Forums
Lib/dems rule the day
by JimmyG
2nd Dec 2016 10:59pm
Daft funny joke
by venice
2nd Dec 2016 5:54pm
We dont learn much.
by venice
1st Dec 2016 9:22pm
Freegle
by venice
1st Dec 2016 6:36pm
New Wirral History
Name help
by Paternoster21
3rd Dec 2016 8:03am
HMT Lancastria
by granny
2nd Dec 2016 11:38pm
Cubitts Holland and Hannen
by fish5133
27th Nov 2016 5:38pm
Fire station
by chris7777
22nd Nov 2016 12:24pm
Buy a house in Greasby for 12s a week - in 1935
by yoller
6th Oct 2016 6:56pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
fireworks on the Mersey last night
Hadlow train station
Topic Replies
Talk Talk Security Breach
by Gibbo
HMT Lancastria
by tomcat77
11:15 AM
RIP Peter Vaughan
by Gibbo
10:56 AM
Another Big Waste Fire in Liverpool.
by Gibbo
10:53 AM
Blank Page : Offline
by Mark
09:23 AM
Vet help
by diggingdeeper
10:50 PM
Iphone 5s, Grey, near mint condition, £50
by anniebo28
09:39 PM
Mobile mechanic needed to fit a wishbone
by anniebo28
07:30 PM
That was kept a bit quiet?
by diggingdeeper
06:19 PM
December
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Wirral TUC Meeting re Update on Wallasey CLP Suspe
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:16pm
World Aids Day Event 2016. Liverpool
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:05pm
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#319802 - 17th May 2009 3:15pm Neston Collierys *****
Doctor_Frick Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 24th Nov 2007
Posts: 308
Loc: Prenton
I took a trip with Dava249 to Neston library which is holding a small exhibit on the mines at Neston. I wanted to go to get more info for my website, but to be honest it was a bit of a let down. Anyways ...



Nestons Mines
Denhall is a small hamlet located at the edge of the River Dee in the town of Neston. The hamlet was used
extensively as a mining hamlet with a colliery located near the waters edge. The mining operation was opened
in 1760 by Sir John Stanley and covered over seven acres. The operation consisted of an extensive coal mine
with numerous shafts, some of which even ran underneath the river. Several large kilns which were used to
produce quicklime, by the process of calcination. Also on the site was a large stone barn, a stack yard, a fold
yard, a fresh water pond and a large Quay to enable transportation of coal out of the area and to allow for the
importation of mining equipment and resources needed to maintain the operation. The quay was also used to
import roofing slate and limestone which could be turned into fertiliser. The surrounding fields and pastures held
names reflecting the mining operations, such as Colliery green and Miners Green.

Deep inside the mine beneath the floor level, two underground canals known as Navigation's were dug in out in
the summer of 1791 for the purpose of transporting coal to the exit shaft. The transportation along these
canals was carried out by small wooden boats known as Starvationers, named so because of their prominent
ribs. The boats were used to bring the coal from large distant faces to the pit shaft. The two canals were dug
55m and 86m below sea level and spread out underneath the Dee Estuary, which at the time was a hive of
activity. Once the boats were full the men would lay on their backs in the boat and push their feet along the
ceiling to propel the boat down the canal; this technique was refereed to locally as legging. On the canals 4
boats would be tied together with each one carrying 800kg of coal when full. As time advanced the use of the
boats stopped in favour of horse drawn wagons.

There are records of the working lives of these miners who were said to be more than 300 in numbers and sadly
included the employment of old men and children under the age of ten. The workers would endure a long hard
existence spending on average over ninety hours a week in the darkness of the Neston mines and in a constant
danger of industrial accidents. The homes of the workers were close by in the surrounding hamlet owned by sir
John Stanley, they have been described by one source as "the most miserable mass of hovels on the Wirral".

There are no records of significant flooding from the River Dee in the early collieries, though on atleast one
recorded occasion miners dug right through upto the river bed. In 1878 it is known that water from old workings
flooded into the mine forcing it to be abandoned temporarily. In 1882 there is a further note of nine ponies
being drowned in some kind of underground floor within the mines, proving that daily life in the mines was as
hazardous as it was hard.

Coal Extraction
The coal seams were accessed using shafts near the shore of the estuary. There is reported to have been
around 30 shafts, each around 2m wide in use for the colliery. Three larger shaft's were dug for the later
collieries. The early mines worked using a pillar & stall method. Tunnels or 'Stalls' were dug out through the
rock, but large amount of rock 'pillars' were left in place to ensure the roof did not collapse.

As mining operations were carried out under the estuary the coal had to be taken back to the shafts where it
would be raised to the surface. The boats were the early method of transport for the mines, followed by good
old horse power. The cost of hay was said to have been a great burden for the mines.

When the mine was first opened in 1760 the method of coal extraction was still primitive. As a result in the
general amount of coal that was removed was only about 40 percent. The use of wooden pit props to support
the roof was an innovation first introduced about 1800. The critical factor was circulation of air and control of
dangerous explosive gases which could build up and cause a fatality.

At first fires were burned to create air currents and circulate air, but replaced by fans driven by steam engines.
Protection for miners came with the invention of the Davy lamp and Geordie lamp, where any firedamp (or
methane) burnt harmlessly within the lamp. It was achieved by restricting the ingress of air with either metal
gauze or fine tubes, but the illumination from such lamps was very poor. Great efforts were made to develop
better safe lamps, such as the Mueseler lamp produced in the Belgian pits near Liège.

The Two Mines and an Intense Rivalry
Coal was so abundant in Britain when John Stanley opened the
mine that the annual output of coal was some 6¼ million tons.
After 1790 output soared not only in the Neston mine but
nationwide, reaching 16 million tons by 1815 at the height of
the Napoleonic War.

There is said to have been bitter rivalry between Sir John
Stanley who owned Ness Colliery and the owner of nearby rival
mine Little Neston Colliery owned by Thomas Cottingham.
Thomas brought two court cases against Sir John Stanley at
Chester Court over the ongoing problems. The first was in
1821 which related to the use of the underground canal, which
had been built under Cottingham's land, the lease having
expired in 1819.



Two days after the end of the first court case, Stanleys men
were seen to bring up equipment, boats and horses, through
No 6 pit. Tall boards were erected on the surface to prevent
Cottingham from seeing what was going on whilst Stanleys men
also hid their face. Shortly after explosions were heard and
Cottingham found that his tunnel leading from Pit 21 to the
canal had been blown up.

The Second Court Case
The second case in 1822 was obviously more serious due to the destructive and dangerous actions which had
been taken by Stanleys men when blowing up the tunnel. Cottingham sued Stanley for trespass and wilful
damage to his mine for the sum of £10,000, based on lost sales and Stanleys malicious intent. In court Robert
Johnson, Stanleys agent; did not deny that Stanleys men had destroyed the tunnel , but justified the damage
done as being part of a scheme to manage the ventilation of Ness Colliery and to prevent Cottingham's men from
destroying the canal. The judge ruled that their was no malevolence involved and Stanley acted on his agents
best intended advice. The jury found in favour of Cottingham and awarded him just £2000 of the £10,000
requested.


Two Become One
In the mid nineteenth century both of the mines shut down for a short period but reopened under direction of
newly formed companies in 1873. The mine at Neston enjoyed a healthy profit until due to the silting up of the
River Dee, coal shipments to Ireland and North Wales ended. Alternative custom was secured from the railways,
brought about by the building of a link to the recently constructed Chester & Birkenhead Railway's branch to
Parkgate. The Wirral Colliery at Neston was taken over by the British government during the First World War.
The pit subsequently returned to private ownership after the war, but increasing competition from larger mines
precipitated in its closure in 1928. Now the site is completely occupied by a modern housing estate. I still
wonder how many of the people on the estate realise that there house is built above an old mine shaft the
entrance to which was long since covered up.


We then took a drive to find the two old mine shaft which are now burried. This is it now covered with foiliage and trees and hidden by a brick wall...cough cough Robbo...



More pics on the site if your interested. Good Hunting !
_________________________
Over 5000 years of Wirral History:

Top
Wirral History Advertising
Click me for more Information......

* * * Julie : LED Lights Supplied and Fitted Free * * *
Now Advertise with WikiWirral.
WikiWirral stats 35,000 Page Views a Day +500 Search Engines.. Click Me
#319809 - 17th May 2009 3:59pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: Doctor_Frick]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9559
Loc: Birkenhead
Thanks for that Fricky - doing a marvelous job with Old Wirral - keep goin'
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top
#319813 - 17th May 2009 4:19pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: diggingdeeper]
Pinzgauer
Unregistered


Well done that man ! There used to be a few photographs of the colliery in the 1920's in the Harp. Going back a few years mindyou. Might be long gone by now.

Top
#319829 - 17th May 2009 5:12pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: ]
pacef8 Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 27th Dec 2008
Posts: 458
Loc: south wirral
nope , the photos are still there, that is a really interesting write up. Many thanks

Top
#319833 - 17th May 2009 5:19pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: pacef8]
TRANCENTRAL Offline

Green Meanie
Wiki Master

Registered: 10th Apr 2008
Posts: 13453
Loc: Underground
nice pic and info doc keep it up! happy
_________________________
Please do not adjust your mind, there is a slight problem with reality. #backscovered

Top
#319887 - 17th May 2009 7:33pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: Doctor_Frick]
bri445 Offline

Veteran

Registered: 27th Apr 2009
Posts: 676
Loc: Isle of Wight
Some more references:
'Neston & Parkgate Remembered', J.Pearson, 1998, pp104-115, 2 maps, 3 photos.
'Wyrale', Greg Dawson, 1996, pp39-62, 3 sketches, 3 poor photos,
'Birkenhead News' unknown date:


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
Scan-090517-0001.jpg

Description: 'Birkenhead News' unknown date, probably '50s



Top
#319907 - 17th May 2009 7:53pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: bri445]
uggla Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 6th Feb 2009
Posts: 509
Loc: Bromborough
interesting would they be aerial shots on google earth of thats behind that wall
_________________________

Top
#319921 - 17th May 2009 8:07pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: uggla]
Doctor_Frick Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 24th Nov 2007
Posts: 308
Loc: Prenton
All thats behind there is trees. But it can be approached from the beach from behind. Type Riverside Walk into google maps and you can clearly see the 2 round circles of foliage.
_________________________
Over 5000 years of Wirral History:

Top
#319926 - 17th May 2009 8:08pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: Doctor_Frick]
uggla Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 6th Feb 2009
Posts: 509
Loc: Bromborough
cheers doctor
_________________________

Top
#321003 - 19th May 2009 7:45pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: Doctor_Frick]
Annakin Offline
Beginner

Registered: 19th May 2009
Posts: 4
Loc: Parkgate
I was sorry to read that you felt the current colliery display at Neston library was 'a bit of a let down'. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion though yours is the only comment to that effect that I (as principal organiser of the display) have received to date.

Given your comment I am surprised that you have nevertheless apparently used large amounts of information from the exhibition for your article and have used several pictures from the exhibition on your website. (I should add that we have no problem in principle with anyone doing this - we are keen for the collieries' History to be better known. However this approach doesn't sit easily with your view that the display was a let-down).

Can I also politely suggest that you use the information from the exhibition to correct the many errors that you managed to incorporate into your piece.

Anthony Annakin-Smith

Top
#321009 - 19th May 2009 7:56pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: Annakin]
MrPhil Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 14th Apr 2006
Posts: 2367
Loc: Prenton
Did you have a wander on the marsh? as you go to the front you turn right to the Black Hills (think their called them lol)

My old neighbour used to work in them, unfortunatly he passed away 2 months ago or i would of asked alot of questions.
_________________________

Top
#321116 - 19th May 2009 11:12pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: Annakin]
Doctor_Frick Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 24th Nov 2007
Posts: 308
Loc: Prenton
Originally Posted By: Annakin
I was sorry to read that you felt the current colliery display at Neston library was 'a bit of a let down'. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion though yours is the only comment to that effect that I (as principal organiser of the display) have received to date.

Given your comment I am surprised that you have nevertheless apparently used large amounts of information from the exhibition for your article and have used several pictures from the exhibition on your website. (I should add that we have no problem in principle with anyone doing this - we are keen for the collieries' History to be better known. However this approach doesn't sit easily with your view that the display was a let-down).

Can I also politely suggest that you use the information from the exhibition to correct the many errors that you managed to incorporate into your piece.

Anthony Annakin-Smith


Anthony ... Sorry if i upset you with that comment, I have PM'd you.

Doc
_________________________
Over 5000 years of Wirral History:

Top
#321125 - 19th May 2009 11:39pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: MrPhil]
Doctor_Frick Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 24th Nov 2007
Posts: 308
Loc: Prenton

Originally Posted By: Philw
Did you have a wander on the marsh? as you go to the front you turn right to the Black Hills (think their called them lol)

My old neighbour used to work in them, unfortunatly he passed away 2 months ago or i would of asked alot of questions.


Phil

No mate, may go for a wander soon though; its an interesting area. Shame about your neighbour, bet he would have had some great stories.
_________________________
Over 5000 years of Wirral History:

Top
#321126 - 19th May 2009 11:39pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: Annakin]
greasby_lad Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 17th Jan 2009
Posts: 146
Loc: Wirral
Well said, Anthony.
You have highlighted one of the problems on this site - individuals seeking kudos as historians when all they have mastered is how to cut & paste.
I visited the library exhibition yesterday and was suitably impressed.
Please don't give up on this site, despite the posters who take other people's work and claim it as their own there are also people who have done their own research and their posts are informative - and they always show their sources.

Top
#321129 - 19th May 2009 11:57pm Re: Neston Collierys [Re: greasby_lad]
Doctor_Frick Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 24th Nov 2007
Posts: 308
Loc: Prenton
Hmmm cant see anywhere on the site that i have claimed to have written somebody elses work. Also i have never claimed to be a historian, i am simply interested in local History and wanted a site in which to record it all rather than looking for random bits of info on the web. Also there are no sources added as i have told you on numerous occassions that the site is not finished, and is only in beta testing for people on wiki. And just as a final note, you will find lots of info and photos that we have added ourselves.

I personally believe that there isnt a problem with this forum other than people who like to take pot shots at each other, rather than getting out there to discover & record History themselves.

You are of course, also entitled to your opinion ! hammer
_________________________
Over 5000 years of Wirral History:

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Mark 
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Talk Talk Security Breach
by fish5133
06:19 PM
Mobile mechanic needed to fit a wishbone
by anniebo28
6th Dec 2016 7:13pm
Vet help
by colin86
6th Dec 2016 6:25pm
Another tree down on Arrowe park Road?
by Davefabo
6th Dec 2016 11:08am
Game shocking prices!!!
by eddtheduck
5th Dec 2016 4:55pm
For Sale & Free
Iphone 5s, Grey, near mint condition, £50
by anniebo28
07:40 PM
Roberts Concerto 2 CD Player For Visually Impaired
by Tranquil
6th Dec 2016 10:05pm
Gaming chair
by monsterz4
6th Dec 2016 8:27pm
MIG welder
by anniebo28
6th Dec 2016 1:34am
IPhone 4s 16gb £35
by anniebo28
4th Dec 2016 12:45pm
Featured Member
Registered: 12th Sep 2011
Posts: 272
Newest Members
lucyw, BarbaraL, SherryLover, missyb, DavidSharpe
12137 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Gymnastics coaches needed.
by margy
3rd Dec 2016 9:28pm
Wirral Globe
by locomotive
1st Dec 2016 6:25pm
Wirral TUC Meeting re Update on Wallasey CLP Suspe
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:16pm
World Aids Day Event 2016. Liverpool
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:05pm
A job. Company not named.
by venice
30th Nov 2016 6:30pm
News : New Topics
RIP Peter Vaughan
by diggingdeeper
04:22 AM
That was kept a bit quiet?
by venice
6th Dec 2016 11:25am
Another tree down on Arrowe park Road?
by Davefabo
6th Dec 2016 11:08am
Bunchems Xmas present warning
by venice
6th Dec 2016 9:28am
Another Big Waste Fire in Liverpool.
by Wally1
4th Dec 2016 10:24am
New Enthusiast Forums
Talk Talk Security Breach
by fish5133
06:19 PM
Mobile mechanic needed to fit a wishbone
by anniebo28
6th Dec 2016 7:13pm
Vet help
by colin86
6th Dec 2016 6:25pm
Game shocking prices!!!
by eddtheduck
5th Dec 2016 4:55pm
54 plate renault clio 3rd brake light
by Mike72
1st Dec 2016 12:52pm
(Views 24hrs)Trending Newest Topics
Vet help 306
Talk Talk Security Breach 156
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Thu 8:15am
Sunset Thu 3:53pm
Local Time Thu 2:02pm
WikiWirral Can . . . .