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#301936 - 19th Mar 2009 9:17am Cammell Laird built Submarines
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
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Cammell Laird did not build its first submarine, E41 until 1915. The Company went on to build a further seven up to 1918 and continued to maintain this expertise right up until the building of its last ship in 1993, the U class submarine HMS Unicorn for the Royal Navy. Over those 78 years, notable submarines constructed at Birkenhead included the 1939 built HMS Thetis which tragically sank on her trials with the loss of all but three men on board. Three nuclear submarines were built at Birkenhead: HMS Renown, HMS Revenge and the hunter killer HMS Conqueror which sank the Argentinean cruiser General Belgrano during the Falklands War
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#301941 - 19th Mar 2009 9:31am Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: bert1]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
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HMS E41 was an E class submarine. She was laid down on the 26 July 1915 and was commissioned in February 1916. On exercises she collided with HMS E4 on the surface off Harwich on August 15 1916.
Sixteen crew members were lost but 15 escaped including 7 from the bottom. E41 was raised in September 1917 and recommissioned.


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e41 launch.jpg


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#301944 - 19th Mar 2009 9:41am Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: bert1]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
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HMS Thetis
Thetis was built by Cammell Laird in Birkenhead, England and launched on 29 June 1938. After completion, trials were delayed because the forward hydroplanes jammed, but eventually started in Liverpool Bay under Lieutenant-Commander Guy Bolus. Thetis left Birkenhead for Liverpool Bay to conduct her final diving trials, accompanied by the tug Grebecock. As well as her normal complement of 59 men she was carrying technical observers from Cammell Laird and other naval personnel, a total of 103 men. The first dive was attempted on 1 June 1939 at about 14:00. The submarine was too light to dive, so a survey of the water in the various tanks on board was made. One of the checks was whether the internal torpedo tubes were flooded.

Lieutenant Frederick Woods, the torpedo officer, opened the test cocks on the tubes. Unfortunately, the test cock on tube number 5 was blocked by some enamel paint so no water flowed out even though the bow cap was open. This combined with a confusing layout of the bow cap indicators - they were arranged in a vertical line with 5 at the bottom - 1,2,3,4,6, and then 5; and the shut position for tube 5 on the dial was in a different position to the other torpedo tubes - led to the inner door of the tube being opened. The inrush of water caused the bow of the submarine to sink to the seabed 150 feet (46 m) below the surface.

An indicator buoy was released and smoke candle fired. By 1600 Grebecock was becoming concerned for the safety of Thetis and radioed the HMS Dolphin submarine base at Gosport. A search was immediately instigated.[2] Although the stern remained on the surface, only four crew escaped before the rest were overcome by carbon dioxide poisoning caused by the crowded conditions, the increased atmospheric pressure and a delay of 20 hours before the evacuation started. Ninety-nine lives were lost in the incident. In addition to the normal crew of 53, there were 26 Cammell Laird employees, another 9 naval officers, 4 Vickers-Armstrong employees and 2 caterers. The crew waited before abandoning the vessel until it had been discovered by Brazen, a destroyer which had been sent to search for it and which indicated her presence by dropping small explosive charges into the water.

The incident attracted legal action from one of the widows, who brought a claim of negligence against the shipbuilders, for not removing the material blocking the valve.[3] Unfortunately for her the Admiralty successfully invoked Crown Privilege (now termed Public Interest Immunity) and blocked the disclosure of, amongst other items, 'the contract for the hull and machinery of Thetis' as evidence in court, on the basis that to do so would be 'injurious to the public interest'.[4] The case is one of interest in English law, as the judges in this case accepted the Admiralty's claim on face value with no scrutiny, a ruling later overturned.

One further fatality occurred during salvage operations, when Diver Petty Officer Henry Otho Perdue died from "the bends" on 23 August 1939. On Sunday 3 September Thetis was intentionally grounded ashore at Moelfre Bay, Anglesey. It was the same day that war was declared. Human remains that had not already been removed by the salvage team were now brought out to a Naval funeral, with full honours
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#301946 - 19th Mar 2009 9:44am Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: bert1]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
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Loc: tranmere
HMS Thetis


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thi.jpg

th3.jpg

th2.jpg


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#301957 - 19th Mar 2009 10:05am Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: bert1]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
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Loc: tranmere
In the Early 70s i had the pleasure of meeting one of the survivors of the Thetis, Frank Shaw who was an apprentice at the time of the disaster and what a horrifying tale it was. I also remember talking to a relative of one of the Welsh miners rescue team who went in and got the bodies out and i can recall him telling me how the rescue team were given more than enough Rum to drink to get them near drunk before sending them in, such was the condition of the bodies.
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#301960 - 19th Mar 2009 10:10am Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: bert1]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
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Loc: tranmere
Hms Thetis was salvaged and repaired and commissioned in 1940 as HMS Thunderbolt. She was sunk on 14 March 1943 off Cap St Vito by the corvette Cicogna. She depth charged her and all hands were lost.
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#301961 - 19th Mar 2009 10:21am Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: bert1]
MissGuided Offline

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I never realised they brought her back up! I thought they left it.
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#301963 - 19th Mar 2009 10:36am Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: bert1]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7850
Loc: tranmere
In 1935 a list of new submarines required by the Royal Navy was produced. The Royal navy decided that all submarines would have names rather than numbers. These would be know as Triton class or T class. As well as the Thetis/Thunderbolt there were Taku 1937, Talisman 1938 and Thrasher, Thorn, and Tempest 1939.


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t class.jpg




Edited by bert1 (19th Mar 2009 10:38am)
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#301968 - 19th Mar 2009 10:52am Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: bert1]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7850
Loc: tranmere
THE OBERON CLASS

HMS Onyx S21 was constructed at Cammel Laird shipbuilders in Birkenhead. She was originally ordered by the Royal Canadian Navy and was launched in August 1966. Onyx was comissioned into service with the Royal Navy in 1967.

HMS Onyx was the only non-nuclear powered submarine to take part in the Falklands War, where she was used in shallow water to land troops.

In 1991 Onyx was decommissioned from the Navy, she was then on public display in Birkenhead as part of the Warship Preservation Trust


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#301975 - 19th Mar 2009 11:21am Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: bert1]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7850
Loc: tranmere
Resolution class submarines Hms Renown launched 1967 and Hms Revenge launched 1968 were known better as the Polaris submarines though that was the ballistic missile system they carried. Along with the Churchill class submarine HMS Conqueror they were nucular powered. HMS Conqueror went on to serve in the Falklands sinking the Belgrano.

HMS Conqueror ("Conks") was a Churchill-class nuclear-powered fleet submarine that served in the Royal Navy from 1971 to 1990. She was built by Cammell Laird in Birkenhead. As of 2009, she is the only nuclear-powered submarine to have engaged an enemy ship with torpedoes, sinking the cruiser ARA General Belgrano with two mark 8 torpedoes. She is one of only two submarines which have sunk a warship since World War II, the other being the Pakistani Navy's PNS Hangor, and the only nuclear submarine to do so.

Conqueror was the third of the class, the other two being Churchill and Courageous. The main aim of these submarines was to face the Soviet threat at sea by attacking other ships and submarines, and spying on Soviet nuclear-armed submarine movements.

However, Conqueror, commanded by Cdr Chris Wreford-Brown, was most famously deployed during the Falklands War, setting sail from Faslane Naval Base on the River Clyde in Scotland on 3 April 1982, one day after the Argentine invasion. Conqueror arrived in the exclusion zone around the Falklands twenty-one days later. She was ordered to scan the area for Argentine shipping, particularly the Argentine aircraft carrier, ARA Veinticinco de Mayo (the 25th of May). However, on 30 April, she spotted the Argentine light cruiser, ARA General Belgrano. Belgrano was sailing southwest of the Falklands, just outside the exclusion zone imposed by the British on Argentine shipping and approaching the Task Force, while the ARA Veinticinco de Mayo was approaching from the north. British admiral, Rear Admiral J. F. Woodward, requested permission from the British government to sink Belgrano. After some debate he was allowed to proceed, though while this was going on the Belgrano retired from its attack position since the ARA Veinticinco de Mayo was not ready. Finally, the message to engage the 'Belgrano' was sent from Northwood, the Royal Navy's fleet command centre in the United Kingdom to Conqueror.

The basis for this decision was that the Royal Navy feared a pincer-style attack with Belgrano attacking from the south, and the Veinticinco de Mayo from the north. Also Belgrano could have escaped from Conqueror by sailing across nearby shallow waters, and it could have then attacked the British Task Force.


ARA General Belgrano sinking after being hit by torpedoes from ConquerorThe scene was now set, and on 2 May Conqueror became the first nuclear-powered submarine to fire in anger when she launched three mark 8 torpedoes at Belgrano,[2] two of which struck the ship and exploded. Twenty minutes later, the ship was sinking rapidly and was abandoned by the crew. The two escorting destroyers fled the scene under fear of further attack. 323 men were killed.

Conqueror's war did not end there. The crew of the submarine had to face Argentine Air Force attempts to locate the boat in the days after the attack, which had shocked the Argentine people and ruling dictatorship. Conqueror did not fire again in anger throughout the war, but the crew did provide valuable help to the task force by using their sophisticated monitoring equipment to track Argentine aircraft departing the mainland.

After the war, Conqueror returned to Faslane, flying the Jolly Roger, a customary act of Royal Navy submarines after a "kill". When asked about the incident later, Cdr Wreford-Brown responded, "The Royal Navy spent thirteen years preparing me for such an occasion. It would have been regarded as extremely dreary if I had fouled it up."


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HMS_Conqueror_%28S48%29.jpg

180px-ARA_Belgrano_sinking.jpg


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God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#301980 - 19th Mar 2009 11:30am Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: bert1]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7850
Loc: tranmere
Upholder Class Submarines



HMS Upholder

Builder: Cammell Laird. Birkenhead (VSEL Ltd)
Pennant Number: S41
Ordered: 02.01.1986
Launched: September 1989
Laid Down: January 1986
Completed: 1991



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HMS/M Ursula




Builder: Cammell Laird. Birkenhead (VSEL Ltd)
Pennant Number: S42
Ordered: 02.11.1983
Laid Down: August 1987
Completed: 1992



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HMS/M Unicorn




Builder: Cammell Laird. Birkenhead (VSEL Ltd)
Pennant Number: S43
Ordered: 02.01.1986
Laid Down: February 1989
Completed: 1993



Edited by bert1 (19th Mar 2009 11:32am)
_________________________
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Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
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Bertieone.

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#302279 - 19th Mar 2009 9:40pm Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: bert1]
jimbob Offline

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Registered: 26th Nov 2008
Posts: 1535
Loc: Birkenhead
By the end of the second world war Cammell lairds had built over 60 submarines. From the mid 1930s onwards they where built by classs. Meaning different sizes of submarine where built to suit the various needs and places of operation. They where named with the first letter been the class of boat. {submarines are boats -not ships} for the information of land lubbers. I shall post the full list of names later along with the submarines that where built after the second world war right up till we shut in 1993 [by we i mean Cammell Lairds}
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#340829 - 5th Aug 2009 5:34pm Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: jimbob]
BandyCoot Online   Reading

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Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 5346
Loc: Birkenhead
Had the pleasure of serving on a Cammell Lairds boat in the early 60's. HM S/m Aeneas. It was a special source of pride to me that it was built there. Launched in 45 she served until the 70's. She was converted at one time as a submarine launched misslile trials boat. Wasn't on it then so don't know any details. Lairds built T's, A's, P's and O's, all diesel driven boats as well as the nukes. People tend to forget about the "Diesel Dinosaurs" as they now call us.
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#340860 - 5th Aug 2009 7:42pm Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: BandyCoot]
8HBob Online   content
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Registered: 23rd Mar 2009
Posts: 205
Loc: Pensby
Just for the record,Cammell Laird built 'Unicorn' , 'Ursula' & 'Unseen'. The first ship , 'Upholder' was built at Vickers Barrow.

Bob.
ex. Lairds Drawing Office

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#340872 - 5th Aug 2009 8:15pm Re: Cammell Laird built Submarines [Re: 8HBob]
bri445 Offline

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Registered: 27th Apr 2009
Posts: 678
Loc: Isle of Wight
All that expertise gone now!!
Bri

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