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#280936 - 6th Jan 2009 5:49pm Tougher penalties for knife crime.
Wench Offline

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Registered: 9th Aug 2008
Posts: 8616
Loc: Second Circle of Hell.
Tougher, more intensive punishments for people who carry illegal knives were announced today by Justice Minister David Hanson MP who outlined the government's position for 2009.

From 5 January, Courts will be able to hand out tougher and more intensive penalties for everyone convicted of possession of a knife who are ordered by the courts to carry out community payback work such as picking up litter, renovating community centres, clearing undergrowth and cleaning up graffiti for local communities.

Offenders sentenced to pay for their crimes within the community already have to work hard, wear high visibility orange jackets with the distinctive 'Community Payback' logo, give something back to their neighbourhoods and lose much of their free time.

Justice Minister David Hanson MP said:

'We want to ensure knife crime offenders are treated with the seriousness they deserve. Where jail is the best option, I'll always make sure there are enough prison places and more people are now going to prison for knife-related crime

'But the government also wants to see tougher and more effective community based sentences for those the courts choose not to send to jail. Earlier this year I announced that anyone convicted of a knife-related offence and sentenced to the maximum 300 hours of community payback from the courts will complete their sentence in intensive blocks.

'This is now being extended to include all knife crime offenders given any amount of community payback as part of their sentence. They will now have to do at least 18 hours of work a week, and potentially be subject to a curfew that keeps them off the streets in the evening and a probation appointment during the week on top of these hours. This means a significant loss of liberty and free time for all those unemployed knife offenders across the whole of England and Wales.'

The government is committed to tackling knife crime and has doubled the maximum sentence for possessing an illegal knife to four years in 2006, increased the use of stop and search, and raised the age at which you can be sold a knife to 18 in 2007.

Knife crime offenders may also have to do programmes or activities with their community payback work which are designed to reform their behaviour and so reduce the likelihood of reoffending. This might involve attendance on an offending behaviour group work programme or a course to improve prospects of employment. Offenders may also have to attend drug rehabilitation, which may involve more than three days of all their activities each week.

Last year there were 55,771 completions of community payback across England and Wales, providing over six million hours of free labour for communities.

Recent statistics show that frequency of reoffending for community sentences have fallen sharply by 13%. That's why in March the government announced £40 million to further support the probation service so that magistrates have tough community sentences that will punish offenders at their disposal.

Notes
1. The latest figures show that frequency of reoffending for community sentences have fallen sharply by 13%. The reoffending rate following a short custodial sentence is 59.7%. The reoffending rate following a community sentences is 37.9%.

2. A community sentence can be made up of one or more of the following 12 options: compulsory community payback, specified activity - such as a course to improve prospects of employment, supervision - daily or weekly meetings with a probation officer, an accredited programme to tackle issues such as anger management, prohibited activity, curfew, exclusion from a place, activity at an attendance centre, residence with an automatic curfew, mental health treatment, drug rehabilitation and alcohol treatment. Sentences are constructed to ensure the public's safety is paramount, the offender is duly punished, but they are also given the opportunity to rehabilitate and get help for the some of the root causes behind their offending.

3. In June 2008, the government outlined plans to focus a programme of action on knife crime hotspots and announced an initial investment of £2 million. This built on the success of the Tackling Gangs Action Programme which ran from September 2007 until February 2008.

4. The ten areas taking part in the Tackling Knives Action Programme are London, Essex, Lancashire, West Yorkshire, Merseyside, the West Midlands, Greater Manchester, Nottinghamshire, South Wales and Thames Valley.

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#280942 - 6th Jan 2009 6:03pm Re: Tougher penalties for knife crime. [Re: Wench]
xX_Jennie_Xx Offline
Wise One

Registered: 23rd May 2008
Posts: 841
Loc: Wallasey
i do agree wiv this loads but at the same time somepeople genuinally carry them round to feel safe .
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#280946 - 6th Jan 2009 6:11pm Re: Tougher penalties for knife crime. [Re: xX_Jennie_Xx]
Wench Offline

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Registered: 9th Aug 2008
Posts: 8616
Loc: Second Circle of Hell.
I can see your point, but unfortunately it becomes a vicious circle.
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#280947 - 6th Jan 2009 6:13pm Re: Tougher penalties for knife crime. [Re: Wench]
xX_Jennie_Xx Offline
Wise One

Registered: 23rd May 2008
Posts: 841
Loc: Wallasey
yer i do understand that but saying that they dnt no weathera anybody is carrying a knife until it is actually used. one of my friends was stabbed not so long back down seacombe ways an they werent actually carrying a knife they went ome to go and get it ... so if these horrible people want to hurt somebody they will do it either way it should be tougher penalties all round expecially wen the knife has been used


Edited by xX_Jennie_Xx (6th Jan 2009 6:17pm)
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#281216 - 7th Jan 2009 4:03pm Re: Tougher penalties for knife crime. [Re: xX_Jennie_Xx]
chriskay Offline
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Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Originally Posted By: xX_Jennie_Xx
yer i do understand that but saying that they dnt no weathera anybody is carrying a knife until it is actually used. one of my friends was stabbed not so long back down seacombe ways an they werent actually carrying a knife they went ome to go and get it ... so if these horrible people want to hurt somebody they will do it either way it should be tougher penalties all round expecially wen the knife has been used


So, if your friend had been carrying a knife, would that have stopped him/her being stabbed? As you observed, "so if these horrible people want to hurt somebody they will do it either way", so presumably the only purpose in carrying a knife is in order to retaliate, so, 2 casualties instead of 1. I just don't see the point.
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#281220 - 7th Jan 2009 4:21pm Re: Tougher penalties for knife crime. [Re: chriskay]
Wench Offline

H4H County Volunteer
Wiki Veteran

Registered: 9th Aug 2008
Posts: 8616
Loc: Second Circle of Hell.
Exactly my point Chris - vicious cycle. It just ends in continual retaliation, which is when innocent people get injured.

There used to be a time when fights were one on one, hands only. Now nobody can fight without a weapon and the back up of their mates. They don't look "hard", they just look stupid!!

I fear it will be hard to police though, unless the Stop and Search Powers are ammended (which I think they may be doing or have already prepared the draft for - I'll do some digging).

The problem lies with the fact that the Government bring out such Orders, yet don't think of who is actually going to enforce it! Each individual arrested and charged generates paperwork, which in turn ties up the Police for hours, which in turn is 2 less on patrol. So for every one knife and owner taken off the streets, there is a few that will get away.

Instead of cutting the Police budget, it should be increased. JMPO.
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#281417 - 8th Jan 2009 1:24am Re: Tougher penalties for knife crime. [Re: chriskay]
Dava2479 Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 10th Feb 2008
Posts: 1924
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: chriskay
Originally Posted By: xX_Jennie_Xx
yer i do understand that but saying that they dnt no weathera anybody is carrying a knife until it is actually used. one of my friends was stabbed not so long back down seacombe ways an they werent actually carrying a knife they went ome to go and get it ... so if these horrible people want to hurt somebody they will do it either way it should be tougher penalties all round expecially wen the knife has been used


So, if your friend had been carrying a knife, would that have stopped him/her being stabbed? As you observed, "so if these horrible people want to hurt somebody they will do it either way", so presumably the only purpose in carrying a knife is in order to
retaliate, so, 2 casualties instead of 1. I just don't see the point.



Here Here.Anyone carrying a knife has the intention of using it wether or not it`s for safety or any other reason.They should NOT carry a weapon of any discription.JAIL THEM.


Edited by dava2479 (8th Jan 2009 1:25am)

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#281419 - 8th Jan 2009 1:53am Re: Tougher penalties for knife crime. [Re: Dava2479]
MGCraig Offline
AlfaHolic
Forum Veteran

Registered: 16th Apr 2006
Posts: 5488
Loc: Spital
I dont carry a knife. Most of my friends at school seemed to fear chavs/scallies, and avoid them like the plague (Until they too up kickboxing). The only times Ive ever been kicked off on, is if theyve shown fear by trying to avoid them, crossing the rad etc. I walk past or through them, and ignore them. They dont mess with you. Therefore, Ive no need for a knife. Its petty, its cowardly and its "Cheating".


Give me bare fists any day. No excuse from anyone to carry a knife. "I dont feel safe so I carry one" is bullshit....are mothers pushing babies in prams around gonna carry a 10" blade on their person??
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#281427 - 8th Jan 2009 2:37am Re: Tougher penalties for knife crime. [Re: MGCraig]
MissGuided Offline

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Wiki Guardian

Registered: 18th Jul 2008
Posts: 9995
Loc: Back of the wardrobe
I can't say what I'd do if a chav/scally came up and kicked off on me while I was pushing a child in a pram. Primal instinct would probably take over - I would KILL or at least severely maim anyone who threatened my child (and threatening me is threatening the child with me).

Don't mess with a mother.

I think its quite rare that these types do go anywhere near a woman with a pushchair - unless of course she herself is a chav/scally (e.g. the woman they knocked up).
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