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#274181 - 7th Dec 2008 7:42pm WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny )
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7826
Loc: tranmere
I thought this was worth posting for those who have no knowledge of these items. My uncle was killed during WW1. His name is on the monument at Hamilton square and because his body was never found his name is also on the Thiepval Monument, France. After the war all next of kin of those killed received a Scroll and Plaque from the King and country, accompanied by a letter from the King. Though all next of kin received the Plaque, you were lucky to receive the scroll. The Plaque became known as the dead man's penny.


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#274206 - 7th Dec 2008 8:39pm Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: bert1]
Morseman Offline
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Registered: 15th Oct 2008
Posts: 218
Loc: Wallasey
Those that survived were then treated like dirt. Those widowed or fatherless struggled to live on peanuts. People were literally forced to sell their furniture before they could claim benefits. A land fit for hero's was the call when the war was going on but instead it became a living hell for a lot of people. Douglas Haig did okay though despite sending hundreds of thousands to needless deaths.

RIP Berts uncle and all the others who died for nothing while the few profiteered as usual.

How many people are aware of the thirties riots in Birkenhead? This was a direct result of Birkenhead council cutting benefits to an already struggling population. The Queens in Park Road East was wrecked and railings from Birkenhead park were torn down to use as weapons.

A number of people were wrongly imprisoned on trumped up charges and their families suffered more. I can't remember the name of the book but it is a fascinating read and details the whole dirty business. Edit, just found it. Idle Hands, Clenched Fists
The Depression in a Shipyard Town
by Stephen F. Kelly


Well worth looking for or as your library to get it for you before they are all shut down of course.
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#276122 - 14th Dec 2008 11:30pm Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: Morseman]
FreckledHen Offline
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Registered: 18th Jul 2008
Posts: 35
Loc: Sunny Wirral
I have a friend who told me of her grandfather being in the '30's riots in Birkenhead. She said that the whole family were terribly ashamed of the fact that their 'Grandad', a dock worker, was put in jail with others even though they were rioting to protest at the cuts in benefits to their friends. Most workers were poor and had little to eat already. These rioters must have been pushed to their limits to act like they did. Also the stigma of being a 'jailbird' was worse on being let out.

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#276125 - 14th Dec 2008 11:34pm Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: FreckledHen]
MissGuided Offline

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Registered: 18th Jul 2008
Posts: 9995
Loc: Back of the wardrobe
bert - that scroll was very moving to read.
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#276169 - 15th Dec 2008 4:10am Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: MissGuided]
Wench Offline

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Registered: 9th Aug 2008
Posts: 8616
Loc: Second Circle of Hell.
My Uncle is on the WWII memorial and I have another relative (not sure who until I ask my Mum) on the WWI memorial. I'll have to see if she knows anything about the plaque.
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#276178 - 15th Dec 2008 9:19am Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: Wench]
MissGuided Offline

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Registered: 18th Jul 2008
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Loc: Back of the wardrobe
One of my Dad's uncles died at El-Alamein. Not sure where his memorial is - if there even is one. frown
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#276182 - 15th Dec 2008 9:46am Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: MissGuided]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7826
Loc: tranmere
your relative should be on the memorial where he lived. If he was buried where he was killed abroad, have a look on Commonwealth war graves site.
_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#276185 - 15th Dec 2008 10:27am Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: bert1]
MissGuided Offline

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Registered: 18th Jul 2008
Posts: 9995
Loc: Back of the wardrobe
well he was local i think, or possibly still lived in Gwaenysgor where that side of family is from.
I've tried war grave site couldn't find him. But then I don't know what his rank was, just name and birthdate
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#276194 - 15th Dec 2008 11:27am Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: MissGuided]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7826
Loc: tranmere
There are plenty of sites you could look on, but they would all probably cost you money. If you could get his Forces number it would greatly help you. try Gwaenysgor Memorial site.


Edited by bert1 (15th Dec 2008 11:27am)
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Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#276241 - 15th Dec 2008 5:47pm Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: MissGuided]
uptoncx Offline
Veteran

Registered: 24th May 2008
Posts: 683
Loc: Wirral

There appears to only be one resident of Gwaenysgor who died in the Second World War:

William G N House ..... RCS ..... 27th October 1942


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#276340 - 16th Dec 2008 10:28am Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: uptoncx]
mindplayer Offline
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Registered: 19th Aug 2008
Posts: 220
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I didn't know about any riot in Birkenhead, why didn't my mum and dad tell me. Was it because it was in the Northend. I would not have thought it was in the posher parts of Birkenhead, after all it was the Northenders that had been the most disadvantaged. I am gobsmacked about all this, I just can't beleive the things I don't know my own home town.
I'll have to get the book now and read up on it. I have just Googled the book and it is top of the searches on a French website, funny eh.

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#276494 - 16th Dec 2008 9:58pm Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: mindplayer]
jimbob Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 26th Nov 2008
Posts: 1530
Loc: Birkenhead
Think you will find the riots which ended up a running fight with the police where along the park road north area. Thats where the spikes where broken off the railings as weapons. Apart from the rights and wrongs of what happened if you dig deep you will find there where a group of agitators who got things going and as always slip away and are not the ones who ended up in jail
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#276928 - 19th Dec 2008 9:54am Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: jimbob]
Dava2479 Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 10th Feb 2008
Posts: 1924
Loc: Wirral
Missguided,Ducko and I work as volunteers for "The War graves photographic project" who are attached to the common wealth war graves.I have a contact who may be able to help or at least put you onto someone who can.I will pm you with his email.

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#276940 - 19th Dec 2008 11:08am Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: Dava2479]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7826
Loc: tranmere
Relating to the first posting, The THIEPVAL MEMORIAL is engraved with the names of 73,367 British and Commonwealth soldiers who fell in the first battle of the Somme 1916, who have no known grave.


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Thiepval_memorial.jpg


_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#277050 - 19th Dec 2008 10:08pm Re: WW1 Birkenhead soldier( dead mans penny ) [Re: bert1]
jimbob Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 26th Nov 2008
Posts: 1530
Loc: Birkenhead
I think every one should visit the THIEPVAL MEMORIAL at some time during there life. It is only when you stand there and look at the long lists of names carved in stone that you begine to realize the numbers of men that where killed. Nobody walks away from that monument with dry eyes. Numbers on paper have little meaning in comparison
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