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#132299 - 14th Feb 2006 1:13pm Scoops engine change (need help)
scoop Offline
Wiki Addict

Registered: 18th Nov 2004
Posts: 7238
Loc: Leuchars
Right guys,as u may know on sunday e got this far


Yesterday we finished up and started her,to cut a long story short,shes running 1.6 ECU,1.6 exhaust.idles like shit,exhaust is red hot just behind cat,i mean hot as in smoking and glowing,and im not sure if the coolant is flowing,oh,and ive got a dead battery and alternator warning light, alternator is connected properly,but it had snapped the live cable? any ideas why it wont sort its idle out,im tryin to give it enough time to reset the ECU but by after a few minutes the exhaust is so red im afraid for it,so i stop it
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#132300 - 14th Feb 2006 2:54pm Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
scoop Offline
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Registered: 18th Nov 2004
Posts: 7238
Loc: Leuchars


Working pic link,admin feel free to edit into one post
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#132301 - 14th Feb 2006 3:02pm Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
StuyMac Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 24th Nov 2003
Posts: 12002
Loc: Wirralshire
How is the timing?

If it is to far retarded it will be igniting the fuel as it goes in to the exhaust making it hot and hard to idle confused
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#132302 - 14th Feb 2006 3:06pm Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
scoop Offline
Wiki Addict

Registered: 18th Nov 2004
Posts: 7238
Loc: Leuchars
how could i fix that? the timing belt is fine and is as it was when the engine was in its donor car,can i advance the spark somehow?
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#132303 - 14th Feb 2006 3:11pm Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
StuyMac Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 24th Nov 2003
Posts: 12002
Loc: Wirralshire
TBH Scoop, I havnt really followed all the threads on this engine swap frown

First Im not to sure how the Zetec engines control their timing - All ECU or do they have a distributor / cam angle sensor?

Second, maybe the 1.6 ECU doesnt know whats going on if your using the new engines sensors.

Thirdly, if its a 1.6 ECU running a bigger engine it will be running lean which causes extra heat.

Guess Dazza is your man on this one wink
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#132304 - 14th Feb 2006 3:29pm Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
scoop Offline
Wiki Addict

Registered: 18th Nov 2004
Posts: 7238
Loc: Leuchars
yeah dazza shud know,hes ran 2.0s on 1.6 management fine,im hoping after 20 mins of running the sensors will tell it what to do.The wiring loom is the same,only 1 sensor is different and thats the air temp one,need to wire that in myself as the plugs are different shapes. It has a cam angle sensor.ill run it for 20 mins later and hope the ECU realises whats wrong and adjusts the timing as necesary,cos surely a 2.0 needs a more advanced spark than what a 1.6 ECU can give but dazza manages it.My method of cheating the PATS didnt work,i need to work out another way,possible maybe removing the whole immobilising system
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#132305 - 15th Feb 2006 1:00am Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
Dazza Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 10th Nov 2003
Posts: 2899
Loc: Birkenhead
:s
First, make sure coolent is topped up - after running the engine it will circulate around the block and heater matrix so will need topping up and bleeding the system of air.

The warning light on the ALT will be the thin blue wire, If youve connected this to a 12v source (pos on the alt) it will stay on, also if you have done this - The light will remain on whislt key is NOT in the ignition which could be why you have a flat battery.

The 'lumpy' idle sounds like an air leak, make sure your inlet bolts are all tight aswell as all jubilee clips (on the throttlebody, airfilter etc).

Is the exhaust is smoking bare in mind you may have dripped oil/water on it so its being burnt off. If your using the 1.6 ECU try putting the 1.6 injectors back in, its possible the engine is running too rich and thats causes the exhaust gases to burn more and hotter.

You wont be able to remove the whole immobilising system as its incorparated internally on all ford ECUs. Id concentrate on getting it running smoothly on the 1.6 ECU before you plug the 1.8 in.
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#132306 - 15th Feb 2006 1:03am Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
Mark Online   Reading


Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 20958
Loc: Wirral
Quote:
Originally posted by scoop2004:
.My method of cheating the PATS didnt work,i need to work out another way,possible maybe removing the whole immobilising system
What do you mean PATS ?

Sounds like timing like Sir Stuy say's.
But Honrable Dazza should be able to help.

Be carfull if its going red hot AFTER the Cat?
Read this - > Catalyst Convertors The Second last paragraph.... (heat v's Life)
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#132307 - 15th Feb 2006 1:28am Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
Scooby Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 5327
Loc: Birkenhead, Wirral.
Scoop, If the exhaust is Glowing After the Catalyst then its only oone of three problems.....

1. Serious over fueling and then the fuel is igniting in the exhaust instead of the combustion chamber.

2. The ignition timing is too advanced, this means the fuel/air mixture is burning in the exhaust as the spart is occuring when the exhaust valve is open.

3. The valve timing is incorrect yet again causing the fuel to ignite in the exhaust.

4. Have you changed the exhaust or catalyst ? If so the catalyst could be blocked/collapsed or the exhayst could be blocked/collapsed.

Option 1 is possible due to ECU or sensor onflicts. Option 2 is the same as option 1. Option 3 is not possible if you have not replaced the timing belt and it was okay on the old car. Option 4 is highly possible, maybe drop the exhaust off the car and see how it runs ?? If it runs clear then the exhaust is suspect.

Hope this helps ??

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#132308 - 15th Feb 2006 3:59am Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
scoop Offline
Wiki Addict

Registered: 18th Nov 2004
Posts: 7238
Loc: Leuchars
cheers guys,air leak? was thinking that,but seriously doubted it,until before,when i head a hissing on the shit part of the idle,u see it runs up to 1100/1200,then falls to 700/800,on the fall it hisses.Air leak,or ISCV breatthing?

water-dont think its circulating the system,after over 20 mins of run time the hoses are cold-luke warm and very squidgy,hardly any water in them at all yet the header tank is to max,and the cap is off

Zorst,standard 1.6 item all through and all pretty new stuff,glows a lot less now so i think the ECU is learning to advance the spark

Smoke-all clear now,it was a)butrning surface oil and b)evaporating water off the floor

Alt light-still there,and its wired how it shud be


Voltage checked the battery and ive got 13v,when a battery runs low does the voltage go lower or not?

Gonna put 1600 injectors in tomorrow,put 1600 MAF on today and it seemed to help.

Also have a problem with throttle, any slight movement of the throttle linkage makes the engine "run away" and fly up the revs,be it by foot or by hand on the TB it excessively high for tiny openings of the throttle,maybe the TPS is sending duff signals to ECU?

Any answers to the problems stated here

Water flow
Alternator
Throttle
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#132309 - 15th Feb 2006 7:14pm Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
Dazza Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 10th Nov 2003
Posts: 2899
Loc: Birkenhead
Not too sure what all of that means.
All engine sensors are compatible with the 1.6 engine anway.

The lumpy idle sounds like a denifate airleak to me, check tightness and use new gaskets if need be.

If you using standard exhaust system and your certain the 1.8 ran fine in the old car - I stand by my comment of swapping the injectors back to 1.6 items, its over fueling.

Keep the header tank filled, always allow the car to heat up until the fan kicks in. If after 20mins you say there not hot - What hose is not hot?
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#132310 - 15th Feb 2006 9:32pm Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
Dazza Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 10th Nov 2003
Posts: 2899
Loc: Birkenhead
Just to add incase I dont read your reply tonight and you want to work on it 2mrw, if the waterflow problem is not the system needing to be bled its possible your waterpump has packed in.

Alternator - Are you sure the damaged blue wire has been connected correctly? Does the Alt charge your battery? When the engine is not running the Alt should read roughly 12v and once started will raise to around 13.5 - 14vish

Throttle - I dont know what 'fly off' means but I think your saying if you slightly rev it, it over revs too much. Id put this down to the airleak and possibley a faulty sensor (try disconnecting the MAF and see if it gets any better)
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#132311 - 16th Feb 2006 12:17am Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
turbo_stu Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 2nd Jan 2006
Posts: 665
Loc: my head
for the hissing have you checked the small breather hose underneath the coil? its an L shape and has a tendency to go on zetec but it would cause much hassle as is only a crankcase breather. for your coolant problem have you checked the condition of the water pump? also check the thermostat is working correctly. does it make a difference if you replace a zetec with a zetec e? i've only done a swap of the same cc which was straight forward.
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#132312 - 16th Feb 2006 12:29am Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
Dazza Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 10th Nov 2003
Posts: 2899
Loc: Birkenhead
Valid points pointed out by steveobennet. happy
If the breather under the coil was leaking it could puff smoke out and small droplets of oil.

Oh steve, the 1.6 and 1.8 engines he are swapping are identical apart from a few ancilliaries and the extra 200cc so no worries there smile
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#132313 - 16th Feb 2006 4:17am Re: Scoops engine change (need help)
scoop Offline
Wiki Addict

Registered: 18th Nov 2004
Posts: 7238
Loc: Leuchars
Right,back from another daft night shift and no work done on car,Intake is the black plastic variety dazza which has no noticable gasket(s) ill grolly it on tight when i get round to it next.

Breather hose is on fine

Alternator- Red wire is on the correct part of the alternator,the thin blue wire is plugged in where it was meant to be plugged in.


How do u tell if a water pump has packed up? and if it has,ill need to replace the cam belt,water pump,cam belt tenssioners and water gasket wont i?

Idle problem=least of my worries just now

My main worry is cooking the engine while trying to diagnose it. How long can an engine stay safe with no water flow? ie/how many minutes of conservative driving til i warp my head,or overheat my internals
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