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#1025900 - 16th Nov 2016 12:34pm RSPCA at it againt they do a good job
fish5133 Online   content
Forum Master

Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 2738
Loc: Heswallish
Whilst no doubt they do a good job it seems too often they are getting power mad.
2 Globe stories this week showing both sides of the RSPCA plus a main stream article about removing their powers.

Local lady who had done voluntary work with animals had own dog take ill (ear tumour). Dutifully she took it vets to get treatment which obviously didn't work. Not wanting to have the dog put down (financial concerns) she let the problem take its natural course trying to treat it herself. Someone (probably the Vet-as the ear tumour was not visible to public) contacted the RSPCA. Judge said if you don't have pet insurance you shouldn't have a pet. Our vet said it wasn't worth us getting insurance and we might not get it because our kitten already had cat flu.

The other story I agree with the RSPCA. A dog owner tried to euthanize his own dog in a horrible way. Had he been able to shoot it through the head it might have been considered humane.

Main Stream Media...RSPCA should be stripped of prosecution powers, say MPs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37987213

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#1025902 - 16th Nov 2016 12:54pm Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9681
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: fish5133
Local lady who had done voluntary work with animals had own dog take ill (ear tumour). Dutifully she took it vets to get treatment which obviously didn't work. Not wanting to have the dog put down (financial concerns) she let the problem take its natural course trying to treat it herself.


I guess you haven't seen the picture of the state the dog was in, she had been "treating" it with water, it suffered for a long period of time. The whole ear canal was affected, it was full of pus and stinking.

This is not a nice picture ....

Click to reveal..
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1025906 - 16th Nov 2016 1:41pm Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133]
lincle Online   content
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Registered: 30th Jan 2014
Posts: 162
Loc: wirral
No excuses ! No finances! Not good enough,the PDSA will always help an animal in pain. There are just to many sad cases of neglect & cruelty. Can someone out there tell me who is going to ensure that these heartless people stick to the ban or are the courts & RSPCA just fighting a losing battle. I do agree though that unless you have a date of birth for your pet,not easily done with rescues or your pet has an ongoing condition then its almost impossible to get insurance.

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#1025907 - 16th Nov 2016 1:42pm Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133]
fish5133 Online   content
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Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 2738
Loc: Heswallish
Morning DD I have seen the picture--ive got 650 of them sitting on my driveway which unfortunately I cant deliver. The treatment from the vet didn't clear it--what else is she supposed to do. Spend hundreds/thousands of pounds more in vet fees with no guarantees of clearing it.I know how difficult it is to decide to put your pet down and its a matter of opinion to let nature takes it course. Who decides if pets should live or die. Of course the RSPCA man will say what he said because they have taken her to court. Did they get the dog treated no--they put it down.
I could show you an equally nasty picture of my big toe --was painful and full of stinking pus been hospital been docs had some treatment (antibiotics) but not clearing--last advice from GP leave it open to the air and wash in sterile (salt) water. Been like that for 2 months. Hopefully the wife wont have me put down. Joking apart there,s too many stories coming out of over zealous RSPCA just seeking prosecutions. Perhaps all the funding the RSPCA get should be redirected to the PDSA who actually treat animals.

This one highlights the bad press

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1...-the-RSPCA.html

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#1025929 - 16th Nov 2016 8:07pm Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133]
Excoriator Online   content
Wise One

Registered: 21st Jan 2010
Posts: 797
Loc: wirral
Selected incidents like these are not a good basis on which to make decisions.

The RSPCA has money coming out of its ears, and in my opinion should restrict itself to its animal work. It can, like anyone else, refer cases of cruelty to the police and the CPS will do the prosecution if there is a good chance of securing a conviction.

I worry that in a case of Bloggs v the RSPCA, that Bloggs doesn't stand a chance, such is its wealth and reputation. That is manifestly unjust and should be stopped.

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#1025930 - 16th Nov 2016 8:24pm Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2506
Loc: Wirral
Quote fish "what else is she supposed to do. Spend hundreds/thousands of pounds more in vet fees with no guarantees of clearing it ?"

Lack of money doesnt excuse someone from allowing obvious suffering to continue, ( animals' ears are exceptionally sensitive so that dog must have been hurting a lot) You make your choice - you find beg or borrow the money to continue a treatment, or you find beg or borrow the money to have it put to sleep humanely.

When insurance isnt available , you can minimize cost impact by putting money regularly into a 'pet vet' account till needed. Still a problem though if you havent been saving long.

I do think we need the RSPCA to be able to prosecute, but
agree some of the prosecutions now seem to be badly prepared and over the top - that needs sorting out .It loses them credibility.

As for the article wanting to let supporters know that the RSPCA pts a lot of dogs every year ..... Well people must be living in cloud cuckooland if they think animal rescue funds can stretch to supporting every stray animal for ever and ever. Yes there are no kill shelters, but they couldnt all be like that or there would be too many stray and cruelty cases left with no-where to go for their chance of a new life.

(Since only a relatively small number of unwanted animals are adopted, I bet that to save and support every unwanted one, ,youd soon need many aircraft hanger size blocks of kennels/cat rooms, in every county - the need really is that big)

Ex - do we have proof that RSPCA still has money coming out of its ears -


Edited by venice (16th Nov 2016 8:36pm)

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#1025938 - 16th Nov 2016 8:58pm Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2506
Loc: Wirral
Quote fish

" I could show you an equally nasty picture of my big toe --was painful and full of stinking pus Been like that for 2 months. *Hopefully the wife wont have me put down

*should we take a poll on it ? laugh - (some of his jokes are painful too! )


Edited by venice (16th Nov 2016 9:01pm)

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#1025939 - 16th Nov 2016 9:20pm Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133]
fish5133 Online   content
Forum Master

Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 2738
Loc: Heswallish
Quote:
Lack of money doesnt excuse someone from allowing obvious suffering to continue

Why should an animal be put down just because its suffering

Do we put children down when they are born with conditions that will cause them to suffer to some degree for the rest of their life.
In the pet world unlike our own there is the option to euthanize--it should be an option not compulsory on fear of fine and prosecution and being stigmatized with "cruelty".
I am not talking about the idiot in the other story who tried to kill his dog with a spade.
When our little kitten was suffering in its last days. We didn't know how long he would last and agreed amongst ourselves we would not have him put down. If some RSPCA officer had called round in their pseudo police uniform and try and take it away to be put down I doubt they would have got out the house without a struggle (and I am not an aggressive person).
There are grey areas of subjective suffering. Did they say to the woman we feel you dog is suffering and think it should be put down or was it right lets take this dog and prosecute.
Would the RSPCA prosecute this friend of mine for catching and releasing this fish and then catching and releasing the same fish the following week when the ulcer whatever had burst. ? Its subjective.


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pike with tumour.jpg

pike burst tumour.jpg



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#1025940 - 16th Nov 2016 9:21pm Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133]
cools Offline
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Registered: 16th Aug 2013
Posts: 1560
Loc: Wirral
From what I've read and watched on TV (Animal Rescuers) I think they do a good job. These animals have no voice so they speak for them. How anybody can think it OK to batter a dog to death with a spade they deserve all that can be thrown at them.Venice is right if there is no hope for the poor animal do the decent thing and let the vet put it out of its misery, you have to find the money for this.

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#1025942 - 16th Nov 2016 9:38pm Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2506
Loc: Wirral
"To some degree" -- thats important . I wasnt having a go about your mog,fish some sick animals do just slip away with minimum degree of discomfort - he didnt look particulary distressed just almost out of it. I do think its very different when observation and commonsense tells you that an animal is in acute and chronic pain like the dog with the ear.

As for comparing with sick children with severe disabilities - the courts dont allow parents to insist on letting a severly handicapped child live child live if doctors agree the condition is too cruel to bear and theres nothing more that can be done. For children in pain, they wouldnt be allowed home to suffer without continued treatment.

The fish is not really comparable as its not owned by your mate - but if it was me , Id have been telling the fisheries owner about it to find out more about whatever was wrong with the fish and in the light of what he found out, consider destroying it if it was a nasty that would just worsen with time.

Certainly dont think the RSPCA should just 'take' animals without due discussion with the owners first , but should overide owners wishes if considered veterinary advice advocated it.


Edited by venice (16th Nov 2016 9:48pm)

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#1025943 - 16th Nov 2016 9:53pm Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9681
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: fish5133
Joking apart there,s too many stories coming out of over zealous RSPCA just seeking prosecutions.


No, the RSPCA are an easy target for cheap News, the full and truthful story is very rarely given. The RSPCA usually only prosecute for gross negligence or when the owner is non-cooperative, they do not prosecute every time they find an animal needing treatment (but the press would lead you to believe otherwise).

In this case the vet had said the dog should be put down and the owner agreed, she just never did it nor attempted to do it.

If she had contacted the RSPCA, PDSA or even her own vets a solution would definitely have been found (I'll PM you details of this) but she chose to let the dog suffer.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1025944 - 16th Nov 2016 10:11pm Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: cools]
fish5133 Online   content
Forum Master

Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 2738
Loc: Heswallish
We don't know if their was "no hope" for this ladies dog. see those fish photos swimming around and still eating away.
My arguement is who is deciding if the animal is going through deliberate undue suffering. RSPCA make a decision which is tested in the courts and present there "expert" evidence to a judge who sees a nasty picture of a dogs ear..job done. Defendants cant afford legal representation and just take the fine. Now and again judges/cps see the ridiculous ness of the case and throw it out of court.
The lady had taken in to be treated but the treatment didn't work--(bet she didn't get her money back of the vet)

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#1025945 - 16th Nov 2016 10:18pm Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9681
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: fish5133
We don't know if their was "no hope" for this ladies dog. see those fish photos swimming around and still eating away.


The vet had stated that if the treatment didn't work the dog should be put down, the treatment clearly didn't work.

The owner said the reason she didn't have the animal put down was financial.

Therefore both the vet and the owner were in agreement that the dog should be put down.

Fish are cold blooded creatures and are a different case to mammals. That would have been a clever double entendre if I had intended it that way wink
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1025949 - 17th Nov 2016 10:16am Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133]
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 27th Dec 2010
Posts: 1722
Loc: Oxton
The RSPCA are useless. There's a large long haired Alsatian on my street that lives in a tiny back yard. Its never taken out for a walk, it lives outdoors all the time and shelters under some plastic sheeting. The yard is full of dog crap, but gets a tin of dog food every day.

Because it gets food and has "shelter" (I use the term very loosely) the RSPCA won't act against the ignorant owners who don't care about the animal's wellbeing.

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#1025950 - 17th Nov 2016 10:40am Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133]
Excoriator Online   content
Wise One

Registered: 21st Jan 2010
Posts: 797
Loc: wirral
The matter is not one of whether people who are cruel to animals should be prosecuted - they undoubtedly should - but rather one of who should do the prosecution.

The reason that the police do not do prosecutions, but rather the job is passed on to the CPS, is that the police - as pursuers of miscreants - are not seen as being impartial in bringing prosecutions.

Exactly the same is true of the RSPCA, and if they have found a case of animal cruelty, they are able to do exactly what you and I can do, and bring it to the attention of the police. They will investigate and collect evidence and pass it to the CPS to decide whether a prosecution is appropriate. There is no need for the RSPCA - as a special case - to be allowed to short-circuit police and CPS and prosecute themselves.

I suspect most people who support the RSPCA do so in the hope of rescuing animals, not prosecuting cruel owners. That is the job of the police and the CPS, not the RSPCA.

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