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venice #1012874 29th Jun 2016 1:24pm
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Originally Posted by venice
the MP seats are two thirds empty.


Other than question time and a few other matters, its normal to only have about a dozen MP's in parliament.


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So by saying don't pander to racism, they are encouraging it and that they planned that as a tactic to encourage it, is that what you are saying dd? or possibly they could have said nothing and been accused of doing nothing to prevent it, on that reasoning they should have said go out and abuse immigrants and no one would have bothered, damned if you do and damned if you don't.

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Originally Posted by casper
So by saying don't pander to racism, they are encouraging it and that they planned that as a tactic to encourage it, is that what you are saying dd? or possibly they could have said nothing and been accused of doing nothing to prevent it, on that reasoning they should have said go out and abuse immigrants and no one would have bothered, damned if you do and damned if you don't.


They are politicians not police.

I don't think a politician telling criminals not to commit a crime has any positive affect whatsoever. However, politicians repeating things like this and it being echoed in the media makes it sound like it is a common place thing to do and increases the likely hood of that crime.

Blaming it on the Leave campaign shows how un-moralistic it is, there was nothing racist about the leave campaign but again, politicians are repeating it was racist and that can only encourage racist behaviour.

The more people that are perceived to be doing something, the more chance more people will do that thing. I'm not suggesting a news blackout on it, but unnecessarily increasing the publicity for political reasons can only increase the chances not decrease it.


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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by casper
So by saying don't pander to racism, they are encouraging it and that they planned that as a tactic to encourage it, is that what you are saying dd? or possibly they could have said nothing and been accused of doing nothing to prevent it, on that reasoning they should have said go out and abuse immigrants and no one would have bothered, damned if you do and damned if you don't.


They are politicians not police.



I don't think a politician telling criminals not to commit a crime has any positive affect whatsoever. However, politicians repeating things like this and it being echoed in the media makes it sound like it is a common place thing to do and increases the likely hood of that crime.

Blaming it on the Leave campaign shows how un-moralistic it is, there was nothing racist about the leave campaign but again, politicians are repeating it was racist and that can only encourage racist behaviour.

The more people that are perceived to be doing something, the more chance more people will do that thing. I'm not suggesting a news blackout on it, but unnecessarily increasing the publicity for political reasons can only increase the chances not decrease it.


Did I imagine the poster with queues of immigrants on it and Farage implying that we were going to be overun by immigrants and facing a Turkish invasion, oh wait I forgot, he denied he had any involvement with that, Boris also denied he had anything to do with it, why? because that propaganda was viewed by all sides as racist and distasteful, however it served their purpose job done, it has without doubt shown a disturbing undercurrent within our society, it chills the blood to hear that some have been told to back their bags and go and children told they don't belong here, the power of suggestion eh dd.

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Originally Posted by casper
Did I imagine the poster with queues of immigrants on it and Farage implying that we were going to be overun by immigrants and facing a Turkish invasion, oh wait I forgot, he denied he had any involvement with that, Boris also denied he had anything to do with it, why? because that propaganda was viewed by all sides as racist and distasteful, however it served their purpose job done, it has without doubt shown a disturbing undercurrent within our society, it chills the blood to hear that some have been told to back their bags and go and children told they don't belong here, the power of suggestion eh dd.


Immigration/border controls are absolutely nothing to do with racism, very nearly every country has immigration controls - its nothing new - but yes it is political fodder to twist and rehash into inciting racial hatred by proxy.

The picture was real not faked, but people are getting vilified for stating facts these day.


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I understand the picture was of real asylum seekers in Europe but we all know what it implied, nod nod, wink wink, I am totally in agreement with stricter controls on immigration, a point that could have been made without the poster,throughout history posters have been used to influence people certainly during the last 2 world wars, and those that gave the nod to its use knew exactly what they were doing and the impact it would have, and they weren't wrong were they?

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Originally Posted by casper
but we all know what it implied, nod nod, wink wink


And there is the problem, the "nod nod wink wink" comes from the Remain side not the Leave side.

The Leave campaign didn't even say it was going to reduce immigration.

The poster wasn't just a poster - it was a photograph showing real events. This was inexplicitly compared to another picture of a queue which was pretty much unrelated other than the perverted convenience of incorrectly linking it to Nazism.


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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by casper
but we all know what it implied, nod nod, wink wink


And there is the problem, the "nod nod wink wink" comes from the Remain side not the Leave side.

The Leave campaign didn't even say it was going to reduce immigration.

The poster wasn't just a poster - it was a photograph showing real events. This was inexplicitly compared to another picture of a queue which was pretty much unrelated other than the perverted convenience of incorrectly linking it to Nazism.


Morning dd, yes you are quite right they didn't promise to reduce immigration, but as I said earlier they implied it, by the very use of the poster/photograph and the words breaking point, they have been very clever(now there's a surprise) they have weaseled out of their non existent promises, and on that basis alone I am now glad I didn't vote to leave I would have felt suckered, UKIP and leave misled people and they have been dishonest both before and after the referendum, and you can bet your bottom dollar we will do a deal with Europe including free movement, and a watering down of workers rights to follow, stitched up like the proverbial kipper. yes

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I don't feel suckered and I voted leave.

I do feel disgusted by the antics of both Leave and Remain campaigns and equally if not more disgusted at the antics of many EU bureaucrats.

But as I have said before - the referendum vote is nothing to do with people or campaigns, it could have been Attila the Hun running the Leave campaign and I would still have voted Leave.

The Referendum was about political issues in the EU and our national independence and that is what the vote was for, not if you fancy Gove at your birthday party etc.

I hope by now that it is realised that Boris was actually a complete set-up to discredit the Leave campaign in a deal with Cameron - but it backfired with gusto!


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I agree with DD on the reason for voting to leave. Not interested in any view on Boris, as the important thing is we as a country can now start to go forward in the wide world.


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I look at it very different to you dd, as you say the whole brexit charade was the brainchild of morally corrupt and dishonest politicians, needless and uncalled for, look at the result brought about by people, so no I wouldnt follow any Tom Dick or Harry nor Attila the Hun, the people of this country were used, the referendum was a sham a fallacy a tool used to further someone's political ambitions.

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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
The Referendum was about political issues in the EU and our national independence and that is what the vote was for, not if you fancy Gove at your birthday party etc.


Which political issues in the EU have directly affected you?

Which EU laws have been introduced that have been negative to you?

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Just wondering what views of the Socialist and Democrats (S&D) Group in the European Parliament are over the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn and the PLP.

Support for or against Jeremy Corbyn remaining as leader?
Can't seem to find anything in the media (possibly not what the media want to hear)

Gibbo #1013035 1st Jul 2016 12:22pm
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Originally Posted by Gibbo
Which political issues in the EU have directly affected you?

Which EU laws have been introduced that have been negative to you?


The direct affect on an individual is irrelevant to something on this scale, but as you ask ....

Having to prepare contracts for euro-tendering despite there not being a hope in hell of an offshore bid. This cost us a lot in time, money and delays.

The price of everything I buy is affected by us being in the EU, mostly adversely.

The inability to support British businesses through my purchases.

The annoyance that some of my non-EU purchases are not fully taxed. While that makes things cheaper it also means that EU and especially UK businesses are at a disadvantage.

That I have to see abominations like the New Brighton clown knowing that money could have been spent better elsewhere, our own government is capable enough of wasting money, we do not need yet another level doing it as well.

That companies like peel holdings can get a monopolistic hold on important land and nothing can be done about it

Having to spend money and time supporting campaigns to get us out of the EU.

Being worried about my and others safety when shock absorbers have been removed from the MOT test.

Knowing that some of my money goes to pay the ridiculous cost of EU bureaucracy when there are British workers unemployed through the actions of the EU.

Being disgusted that family members (and others) died in the wars and now we are giving our sovereignty away to the country they tried to protect us from.

It is a pointless question, it is similar to asking what affect the tide has on a single grain of sand, it affects it in loads of ways but its totally irrelevant compared to how the tide affects the whole beach.


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Well put DD


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