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#1004458 - 15th Mar 2016 6:22pm The Churches and Abuse
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9685
Loc: Birkenhead
C of E abuse report out now HERE

Both the Catholic and C of E churches have been exposed as two-faced, twisted, sick, vile b'stards - the exact opposite of what they preach.

Other big religions have similar problems especially towards abuse of people from other religions.

If you want to have religion, go to the smaller churches/religions and don't carry on giving money to these employment schemes for the most corrupt in our society.
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In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1004466 - 15th Mar 2016 7:25pm Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: diggingdeeper]
fish5133 Online   content
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Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 2738
Loc: Heswallish
Not too many disagreeing with you dd although the word hierarchy after catholic and c of e would be more accurate. The covering up of it is just as sick.sadly its everywhere bbc schools scouts church secret organisations etc etc

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#1004467 - 15th Mar 2016 7:26pm Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: diggingdeeper]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2507
Loc: Wirral
Just a wild guess, but I gather you're not fussed on mainstream religion then DD laugh

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#1004468 - 15th Mar 2016 8:12pm Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: fish5133]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9685
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: fish5133
Not too many disagreeing with you dd although the word hierarchy after catholic and c of e would be more accurate. The covering up of it is just as sick.sadly its everywhere bbc schools scouts church secret organisations etc etc


Not quite, most organisations encourage and promote honesty, the church demand it of others and preach it.

It brings me back to scenario with the police, I'm sure there are a lot of good people but they have to use their own honesty to oust the rot otherwise they are part of it. If 60% of the Church of England gave an ultimatum to the hierarchy the cleansing would happen - and the same for the police!

I'm not expecting everything to be squeaky clean, but sensible lines have to drawn and maintained. You hear of crimes that have real long impact on victims (and I'm not talking about solicitors lying sob stories) yet the transgressor gets away with sod all of a penalty.

That's me laying into the church, police, solicitors and courts - ffs don't get me started on estate agents!
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1004476 - 15th Mar 2016 9:08pm Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: diggingdeeper]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13690
Loc: Wirral
Not defending these cases one bit, although one main difference is, nobody has to go to church but they do have to attend school.

Teachers also preach the wrongs and rights in our communities.

Google 'ex teacher in abuse of children' , there's a list as long as your arm, all very recent, but parents are unable to shout and rant and keep their kids off school until it's sorted nationwide!

Unfortunately, those with vile tendencies DO hide behind the cloth, the blackboard, the dib dib dib, the social climbers and anything else they can conjure up to protect themselves.
Children are intimidated and scared into being quiet, which is quite possibly what originally happened to Joe.

The fact that he eventually found the courage to speak out, as we know, forty years ago this was probably thought to be a figment of his imagination, it is only this century that it's all being brought into the light, with a realisation that such dreadful things happened on a massive scale.

It is of interest, where he met all these Bishops and when, as they are scattered far and wide, so far as I can see. One resigned in 2000, one died in 1990. They did wrongly, agreed ,but I don't understand why he didn't go to the police.

Churches don't actually 'demand' anything of anyone.


Edited by granny (15th Mar 2016 9:10pm)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#1004486 - 16th Mar 2016 8:48am Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: diggingdeeper]
casper Online   content
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Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1234
Loc: wallasey
The biggest difference is that the Church offers sanctuary you are supposed to feel safe there and be protected, the Catholic church offers confession I believe, who fancies telling your sins to a pedophile priest? how can he offer you forgiveness when he is tainted? give me five hail Mary's or maybe something else depending on your age! its not just child abuse look at the Magdaline Sisters, slave labour, taking money off those least able to afford it because they had such large families to feed courtesy of their religion, Jihad, Crusades all in the name of religion.

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#1004489 - 16th Mar 2016 9:07am Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: diggingdeeper]
ludwigvan Offline
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Registered: 6th Jan 2010
Posts: 1129
Loc: Middle Earth
Just as an aside I thought I'd relate my personal experience of the loving Catholic Church. It concerns a particularly vicious bitch of a nun in St. Anne's infant school in Rock Ferry, I won't reveal her name for fear of litigation but she taught the 11+ class. Give her her due she warned us on our first day that she was going to hurt us but it was for our own good, and by God she was true to her word. Violence became an intrinsic part of our education. One occasion comes to mind, indeed it's hard to forget, on one of our tests we were required to score 100 correct answers but I only scored 99, her response to this was to drag me by my hair to the front of the class and make me sit down, she then proceeded to repeat the question and each time I gave a wrong answer she kicked me, eventually she lost any semblance of self control and once again dragged me by my hair and began smashing my face into the blackboard, I then wet myself from fear before losing consciousness. The woman was totally insane and I believe she died a hopeless alcoholic, may she burn in hell.

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#1004508 - 16th Mar 2016 10:11am Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: ludwigvan]
casper Online   content
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Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1234
Loc: wallasey
Jesus Lud, I thought our school was bad, what a sad story, in most schools violence against pupils was the norm, there were very few teachers that didn't use some form of punishment, I only remember two in our school, they didn't need to resort to punishing kids because they had respect.

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#1004511 - 16th Mar 2016 10:19am Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: diggingdeeper]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2507
Loc: Wirral
Can completely believe it Lud. On teaching practice donkeys' years ago in a Catholic school ,in class time, I looked out of the window into the quad ,to keep an eye on two infants Id sent for something or other , to see a nun dash over , grab them, and literally bang their heads together for not being in class. No questions , just 'bang'.
In her own mental arithmetic class I watched her visciously take a ruler to knuckles for every wrong answer.

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#1004515 - 16th Mar 2016 10:42am Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: diggingdeeper]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13690
Loc: Wirral
Horrific revelations here, and probably one thing stands out, as with many other cases.

Did anyone report these crimes ? Did you Venice,or Lud tell anyone at the time ?

Physical punishment was accepted within the education system, and at the same time parents could batter their kids. No repercussions, just simply considered 'the norm' in many areas.
They were still hanging people for murder.

'No hopers' were probably pressured into the religious organisations either as a way of escape or as Casper says 'sanctuary' because they didn't fit in anywhere else. They too may have been abused.

One big horrible place for those who suffered at the hands of, and I dare say we could all, at one level or another, relate a story that would now be deemed fit for the courts.
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#1004517 - 16th Mar 2016 11:39am Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: diggingdeeper]
ludwigvan Offline
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Registered: 6th Jan 2010
Posts: 1129
Loc: Middle Earth
Yes Granny, people were aware of Sister sociopath's behaviour but at that time the Catholic Church was held in great respect and in a lot of people's eyes could do no wrong. We even had to go to 7 o'clock (a.m.) mass every weekday at the convent and we had to sit with her at 9o'clock mass every Sunday in church, if we didn't, even if we went to another mass, on Monday we would be taken into the cloakroom where she really let her sadism have free rein and have our heads banged against the coat hooks, how she didn't kill anyone is beyond me.Each day started with a prayer to Saint Jude ( patron saint of lost causes) so we were made to feel pretty worthless really and I don't think any of us regained any self esteem for a long time after escaping her evil clutches.

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#1004533 - 16th Mar 2016 2:37pm Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: venice]
starakita Online   content

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Registered: 1st Oct 2009
Posts: 2186
Loc: between heaven & hell
Originally Posted By: venice
Can completely believe it Lud. On teaching practice donkeys' years ago in a Catholic school ,in class time, I looked out of the window into the quad ,to keep an eye on two infants Id sent for something or other , to see a nun dash over , grab them, and literally bang their heads together for not being in class. No questions , just 'bang'.
In her own mental arithmetic class I watched her visciously take a ruler to knuckles for every wrong answer.
If I'd of been in her class for maths,I wouldn't of had any knuckles left,I was hopeless at maths
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#1004538 - 16th Mar 2016 2:56pm Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: ludwigvan]
casper Online   content
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Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1234
Loc: wallasey
Thinking back, my elder step sister used to scare me with tales of the nuns, she used to say they'll lock you in cells and whip you, I used to grass on her to my mum, and she would deny it, childhood days.

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#1004540 - 16th Mar 2016 3:01pm Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: starakita]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2507
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: starakita
Originally Posted By: venice
Can completely believe it Lud. On teaching practice donkeys' years ago in a Catholic school ,in class time, I looked out of the window into the quad ,to keep an eye on two infants Id sent for something or other , to see a nun dash over , grab them, and literally bang their heads together for not being in class. No questions , just 'bang'.
In her own mental arithmetic class I watched her visciously take a ruler to knuckles for every wrong answer.
If I'd of been in her class for maths,I wouldn't of had any knuckles left,I was hopeless at maths



lol -- its never been my favourite thing either ! Defo not a natural!

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#1004541 - 16th Mar 2016 3:11pm Re: The Churches and Abuse [Re: granny]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Originally Posted By: granny


'No hopers' were probably pressured into the religious organisations either as a way of escape or as Casper says 'sanctuary' because they didn't fit in anywhere else. They too may have been abused.




Standard procedure in the landowning classes was that the first son inherited the estate, second son went into the army, third son went into the church.
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