WikiWirral Online with you since 2003, fantastic.
Forum Stats
12137 Members
65 Forums
72391 Topics
976121 Posts
23 posts in the last 24hrs
Max Online: 7831 @ 8th Apr 2013 4:18pm
Who's Online - Click Me
73 registered (adrianb, 12 invisible), 1485 Guests and 257 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


(Views 7days)This Weeks Most Read
HMT Lancastria 543
Another Big Waste Fire in Liverpool. 469
Vet help 456
Name help 416
Another tree down on Arrowe park Road? 237
Talk Talk Security Breach 232
Mobile mechanic needed to fit a wishbone 192
That was kept a bit quiet? 186
RIP Peter Vaughan 143
MIG welder 126
New General Forums
Lib/dems rule the day
by JimmyG
2nd Dec 2016 10:59pm
Daft funny joke
by venice
2nd Dec 2016 5:54pm
We dont learn much.
by venice
1st Dec 2016 9:22pm
Freegle
by venice
1st Dec 2016 6:36pm
New Wirral History
Name help
by Paternoster21
3rd Dec 2016 8:03am
HMT Lancastria
by granny
2nd Dec 2016 11:38pm
Cubitts Holland and Hannen
by fish5133
27th Nov 2016 5:38pm
Fire station
by chris7777
22nd Nov 2016 12:24pm
Buy a house in Greasby for 12s a week - in 1935
by yoller
6th Oct 2016 6:56pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
fireworks on the Mersey last night
Hadlow train station
Topic Replies
Vet help
by venice
Yesterday at 09:57 PM
HMT Lancastria
by cools
Yesterday at 04:59 PM
Micro desktop PC
by anniebo28
Yesterday at 02:24 PM
Talk Talk Security Breach
by Gibbo
Yesterday at 01:15 PM
RIP Peter Vaughan
by Gibbo
Yesterday at 10:56 AM
Another Big Waste Fire in Liverpool.
by Gibbo
Yesterday at 10:53 AM
Blank Page : Offline
by Mark
Yesterday at 09:23 AM
Iphone 5s, Grey, near mint condition, 50
by anniebo28
7th Dec 2016 9:39pm
Mobile mechanic needed to fit a wishbone
by anniebo28
7th Dec 2016 7:30pm
December
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Wirral TUC Meeting re Update on Wallasey CLP Suspe
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:16pm
World Aids Day Event 2016. Liverpool
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:05pm
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#1002807 - 27th Feb 2016 12:31am Highly Toxic Air Bags
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9559
Loc: Birkenhead
Watching mastermind tonight, one of the questions is what gas causes airbags to inflate. The contestant guessed at Carbon Dioxide but the answer was given as Nitrogen.

That got me racking my brain, what explosion produces Nitrogen, most ones I know of give off oxides and heat.

Looking this up, the explosive is Sodium Azide (a compound of Sodium and Nitrogen and nothing else), when heated it separates into Sodium and Nitrogen, the Nitrogen going to a gas from a solid compound is in copious volume.

Problem .... Both the explosive Sodium Azide and the residue Sodium are extremely toxic, even in contact with the skin and especially to the surfaces of the lung. Very small amounts of Sodium Azide can be fatal.

Why on earth didn't they just use a compressed gas (or liquid CO2) which would be much safer.

Before anyone quotes numerous internet sites that state nobody has died from air bag chemical, they should check out the coroners report on Ronald Smith who walked away from the crash a healthy man but very rapidly went downhill and died of bronchial pneumonia three weeks later in 2012. The coroner stated this was from the airbag chemicals.

I have seen peoples skin after being attacked by an airbag and believed it was just from "bag slap", however, it could also be from skin burns caused by the sodium.

I should mention that the white powders associated with airbags are just lubricants such as talc which are relatively harmless.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top
AutoWirral : Advertising
Click me for more Information......

* * * Julie : LED Lights Supplied and Fitted Free * * *
Now Advertise with WikiWirral.
WikiWirral stats 35,000 Page Views a Day +500 Search Engines.. Click Me
#1002814 - 27th Feb 2016 1:57am Re: Highly Toxic Air Bags [Re: diggingdeeper]
Wally1 Offline
Addict

Registered: 13th Feb 2010
Posts: 267
Loc: Wallasey
I think they don't use other gases because they are not quick enough, ie they cannot inflate the bag fast enough to save you
from the impact. On the sodium problem...
According to Wiki...

"Older airbag formulations contained mixtures of oxidizers and sodium azide and other agents including ignitors and accelerants. An electronic controller detonates this mixture during an automobile crash:-
2 NaN3 -> 2Na + 3 N2
The sodium that is formed is a potential hazard alone and, in automobile airbags, it is converted by reaction with other ingredients, such as potassium nitrate and silica. In the latter case, innocuous sodium silicates are generated. Newer generation air bags contain nitroguanidine or similar less sensitive explosives."

I would think that all the sodium azide would be consumed in
the explosion, however as Wiki says they are using different
charges in newer airbags.




Edited by Wally1 (27th Feb 2016 1:59am)

Top
#1002838 - 27th Feb 2016 1:10pm Re: Highly Toxic Air Bags [Re: Wally1]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9559
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: Wally1
I think they don't use other gases because they are not quick enough, ie they cannot inflate the bag fast enough to save you from the impact


Liquid CO2 is certainly fast enough, its used to power air rifles. At 0 centigrade its pressure is about 35Bar at 20 centigrade its pressure is about 58 bar.

Thanks for the heads up on nitroguanidine, in the back of my mind I thought there had been a fuss and subsequent change a few years ago. It means that the Mastermind answer was incorrect - but of course the contestant was still wrong.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top
#1002949 - 28th Feb 2016 9:12am Re: Highly Toxic Air Bags [Re: diggingdeeper]
Excoriator Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 21st Jan 2010
Posts: 760
Loc: wirral
Surely, whatever the combustion products are, they are contained safely in the bag. They are supposed to be strong enough not to burst.

Liquid CO2 in my experience rapidly turns to 'dry ice' when the pressure is released. I think that might result in the slowing down of the expansion, and you wouldn't really want dry ice shot into your face anyway even in a bag.

Top
#1002979 - 28th Feb 2016 12:22pm Re: Highly Toxic Air Bags [Re: diggingdeeper]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9559
Loc: Birkenhead
No, the bag has a big hole in it. If it was sealed their is a high risk it would explode. It's also there to ensure it deflates easily afterwards.

It's not dry ice that happens, it's ordinary (water) ice. The water in the air condenses and freezes. It wouldn't be a problem with a very short blast. It is definitely fast enough if released properly.

I think the reason CO2 is not used is because nobody has invented a fast enough release mechanism.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top

Moderator:  StuyMac 
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Talk Talk Security Breach
by fish5133
7th Dec 2016 6:19pm
Mobile mechanic needed to fit a wishbone
by anniebo28
6th Dec 2016 7:13pm
Vet help
by colin86
6th Dec 2016 6:25pm
Another tree down on Arrowe park Road?
by Davefabo
6th Dec 2016 11:08am
Game shocking prices!!!
by eddtheduck
5th Dec 2016 4:55pm
For Sale & Free
Micro desktop PC
by anniebo28
Yesterday at 02:24 PM
Iphone 5s, Grey, near mint condition, 50
by anniebo28
7th Dec 2016 7:40pm
Roberts Concerto 2 CD Player For Visually Impaired
by Tranquil
6th Dec 2016 10:05pm
Gaming chair
by monsterz4
6th Dec 2016 8:27pm
MIG welder
by anniebo28
6th Dec 2016 1:34am
Featured Member
Registered: 16th Jun 2016
Posts: 77
Newest Members
lucyw, BarbaraL, SherryLover, missyb, DavidSharpe
12137 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Gymnastics coaches needed.
by margy
3rd Dec 2016 9:28pm
Wirral Globe
by locomotive
1st Dec 2016 6:25pm
Wirral TUC Meeting re Update on Wallasey CLP Suspe
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:16pm
World Aids Day Event 2016. Liverpool
by RUDEBOX
30th Nov 2016 9:05pm
A job. Company not named.
by venice
30th Nov 2016 6:30pm
News : New Topics
RIP Peter Vaughan
by diggingdeeper
7th Dec 2016 4:22am
That was kept a bit quiet?
by venice
6th Dec 2016 11:25am
Another tree down on Arrowe park Road?
by Davefabo
6th Dec 2016 11:08am
Bunchems Xmas present warning
by venice
6th Dec 2016 9:28am
Another Big Waste Fire in Liverpool.
by Wally1
4th Dec 2016 10:24am
New Enthusiast Forums
Talk Talk Security Breach
by fish5133
7th Dec 2016 6:19pm
Mobile mechanic needed to fit a wishbone
by anniebo28
6th Dec 2016 7:13pm
Vet help
by colin86
6th Dec 2016 6:25pm
Game shocking prices!!!
by eddtheduck
5th Dec 2016 4:55pm
54 plate renault clio 3rd brake light
by Mike72
1st Dec 2016 12:52pm
(Views 24hrs)Trending Newest Topics
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Fri 8:16am
Sunset Fri 3:53pm
Local Time Fri 5:23am
WikiWirral Can . . . .