Our Success is in our members who value our strength as a valued community.
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,352
Posts1,033,281
Members14,560
Most Online16,551
Feb 2nd, 2024
Who's Online Now
7 members (ArranGirl13, 2 invisible), 8,084 guests, and 428 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,269
granny 17,788
_Ste_ 16,345
Newest Members
Kalena1962, rattus, Lisrush, Emotecreative, ArranGirl13
14,560 Registered Users
New General Forums
New Wirral History
Tall Brick Chimneys
by diggingdeeper - 16th Mar 2024 11:56am
D.I.Y. / Building Shop
by mharford91 - 3rd Mar 2024 8:53pm
1970's Murder in Central Park, Wallasey
by cutespam - 4th Aug 2018 10:28am
Old Hall in Higher Bebington
by Rhoobarb - 25th May 2010 5:55pm
Oleo Works
by Ducko - 14th May 2008 3:09pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
granny 14
casper 13
bri445 4
Topic Replies
What song are you listening to?
by diggingdeeper - 28th Mar 2024 6:06pm
Facial recognition coming in supermarkets?
by diggingdeeper - 27th Mar 2024 3:50pm
Bolts at Bebington Road
by diggingdeeper - 27th Mar 2024 2:33am
Hot Spot Chippie Broadway
by Excoriator - 26th Mar 2024 7:57pm
Tall Brick Chimneys
by diggingdeeper - 26th Mar 2024 5:43pm
Lost river (Well, brook really)
by diggingdeeper - 26th Mar 2024 3:09am
Old Hall in Higher Bebington
by diggingdeeper - 24th Mar 2024 5:58pm
Netflix 3 Body Problem.
by BultacoAstro - 22nd Mar 2024 8:04am
Wisper electric bike. 36v .
by Dilly - 21st Mar 2024 7:36pm
March
M T W T F S S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
Kylix 1
cools 1
Top Likes Received
bert1 14
Mark 4
Gibbo 3
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1002807 27th Feb 2016 12:31am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
Watching mastermind tonight, one of the questions is what gas causes airbags to inflate. The contestant guessed at Carbon Dioxide but the answer was given as Nitrogen.

That got me racking my brain, what explosion produces Nitrogen, most ones I know of give off oxides and heat.

Looking this up, the explosive is Sodium Azide (a compound of Sodium and Nitrogen and nothing else), when heated it separates into Sodium and Nitrogen, the Nitrogen going to a gas from a solid compound is in copious volume.

Problem .... Both the explosive Sodium Azide and the residue Sodium are extremely toxic, even in contact with the skin and especially to the surfaces of the lung. Very small amounts of Sodium Azide can be fatal.

Why on earth didn't they just use a compressed gas (or liquid CO2) which would be much safer.

Before anyone quotes numerous internet sites that state nobody has died from air bag chemical, they should check out the coroners report on Ronald Smith who walked away from the crash a healthy man but very rapidly went downhill and died of bronchial pneumonia three weeks later in 2012. The coroner stated this was from the airbag chemicals.

I have seen peoples skin after being attacked by an airbag and believed it was just from "bag slap", however, it could also be from skin burns caused by the sodium.

I should mention that the white powders associated with airbags are just lubricants such as talc which are relatively harmless.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Google Ads
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 319
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 319
I think they don't use other gases because they are not quick enough, ie they cannot inflate the bag fast enough to save you
from the impact. On the sodium problem...
According to Wiki...

"Older airbag formulations contained mixtures of oxidizers and sodium azide and other agents including ignitors and accelerants. An electronic controller detonates this mixture during an automobile crash:-
2 NaN3 -> 2Na + 3 N2
The sodium that is formed is a potential hazard alone and, in automobile airbags, it is converted by reaction with other ingredients, such as potassium nitrate and silica. In the latter case, innocuous sodium silicates are generated. Newer generation air bags contain nitroguanidine or similar less sensitive explosives."

I would think that all the sodium azide would be consumed in
the explosion, however as Wiki says they are using different
charges in newer airbags.



Last edited by Wally1; 27th Feb 2016 1:59am.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
Originally Posted by Wally1
I think they don't use other gases because they are not quick enough, ie they cannot inflate the bag fast enough to save you from the impact


Liquid CO2 is certainly fast enough, its used to power air rifles. At 0 centigrade its pressure is about 35Bar at 20 centigrade its pressure is about 58 bar.

Thanks for the heads up on nitroguanidine, in the back of my mind I thought there had been a fuss and subsequent change a few years ago. It means that the Mastermind answer was incorrect - but of course the contestant was still wrong.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 3
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 3
Surely, whatever the combustion products are, they are contained safely in the bag. They are supposed to be strong enough not to burst.

Liquid CO2 in my experience rapidly turns to 'dry ice' when the pressure is released. I think that might result in the slowing down of the expansion, and you wouldn't really want dry ice shot into your face anyway even in a bag.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
No, the bag has a big hole in it. If it was sealed their is a high risk it would explode. It's also there to ensure it deflates easily afterwards.

It's not dry ice that happens, it's ordinary (water) ice. The water in the air condenses and freezes. It wouldn't be a problem with a very short blast. It is definitely fast enough if released properly.

I think the reason CO2 is not used is because nobody has invented a fast enough release mechanism.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk

Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Facial recognition coming in supermarkets?
by Excoriator - 27th Mar 2024 10:52am
Hot Spot Chippie Broadway
by Excoriator - 26th Mar 2024 7:57pm
Bolts at Bebington Road
by Excoriator - 23rd Mar 2024 9:48am
Netflix 3 Body Problem.
by BultacoAstro - 22nd Mar 2024 8:04am
Tall Brick Chimneys
by diggingdeeper - 16th Mar 2024 11:56am
For Sale & Free
Wisper electric bike. 36v .
by Dilly - 21st Mar 2024 7:36pm
This is Elvis
by GingerTom - 17th Mar 2024 2:37pm
Member Spotlight
KevinFinity
KevinFinity
Wirral
Posts: 2,354
Joined: April 2009
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
New Wirral Info
Facial recognition coming in supermarkets?
by Excoriator - 27th Mar 2024 10:52am
Hot Spot Chippie Broadway
by Excoriator - 26th Mar 2024 7:57pm
Bolts at Bebington Road
by Excoriator - 23rd Mar 2024 9:48am
Get your Money Tree ready
by keef666 - 22nd Mar 2023 12:27pm
Restaurant/pub with outdoor seating - Bromborough
by CarterUSM - 7th Aug 2020 7:59pm
News : New Topics
Gaza
by diggingdeeper - 29th Oct 2023 9:28am
Lost river (Well, brook really)
by Excoriator - 10th Sep 2019 8:50am
New Enthusiast Forums
Netflix 3 Body Problem.
by BultacoAstro - 22nd Mar 2024 8:04am
Xbox
by TudorBlue - 3rd Mar 2024 8:48pm
Wiper mechanism needed
by Peter0787 - 20th Feb 2024 4:07pm
What song are you listening to?
by - 24th Jun 2007 9:06am
Popular Topics(Views)
5,069,765 WIKI WALK CHAT
4,013,828 Spotted!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5