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#1000029 - 3rd Feb 2016 6:44pm Poll : The E.U. What do we want? *****
palemoon Online   content
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Registered: 27th Feb 2015
Posts: 178
Loc: wirral
.
Make your choice
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 3rd Feb 2016 6:44pm
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

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#1000041 - 3rd Feb 2016 7:30pm Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: palemoon]
palemoon Online   content
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Registered: 27th Feb 2015
Posts: 178
Loc: wirral
I never have and probably never will vote UKIP but tonight I watched their Party Political Broadcast at tea-time on ITV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnrFddSJWsk

It helped me make up my mind.

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#1000050 - 3rd Feb 2016 8:23pm Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: palemoon]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9681
Loc: Birkenhead
Not forgetting that Turkey has been offered some back door deals to get into Europe in exchange for co-operating with our attacks on the middle east.

There is no way that Turkey could meet the entry requirements for Europe inside the next 25 years but could well happen regardless. The same happened with Greece and look what has happened there, Greece's government are at the beck and call of Germany.

I vote unreservedly UKIP in the European elections but its not a party I want to run our country, however if it came to a choice between Liberals, Green Peace, Conservatives and UKIP, I would put UKIP in parliament. The UKIP May 2015 helps explain my decision HERE, at least UKIP are realists.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1000059 - 3rd Feb 2016 9:28pm Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: palemoon]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13690
Loc: Wirral
Did anyone see Frank Fields interview on tv today? He spoke a lot of sense. Not really criticizing Mr Cameron, but putting forward certain changes that should also be made to secure our sovereignty. He was very interesting to listen to and made points in easy to understand explanations.

Going on what he said, I think there is so much more that must be dealt with including having our own Supreme Court, which Boris Johnson has also called for, instead of us having to be under Germany's Federal Constitutional Court.

I'll be voting for out, unless things change drastically in our favour. It might cost us a fortune, but we will no doubt re-coup that over the years in saving the millions we pay for the privilege to be a part of it.

As he said, EU will take us to the 'enth degree before making real concessions or decisions as they did with Greece. We need to be guarded on the unfortunate double dealing and tricks that could come out of all this.


Edited by granny (3rd Feb 2016 9:31pm)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#1000064 - 3rd Feb 2016 10:21pm Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: palemoon]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9681
Loc: Birkenhead
We already have a Supreme Court, although technically it is out-ranked by the European Court of Human Rights but this in word only - if a UK court and the ECHR have different rulings it is up to the UK government to choose how to resolve the case. The UK Government cannot overrule the ECHR's decision but it can ignore it.

The ECHR cannot overrule a UK court's decision.

A UK court cannot overrule a ECHR's decision.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1000073 - 3rd Feb 2016 11:11pm Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: diggingdeeper]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13690
Loc: Wirral
Yes, I think I meant to say that he would like there to be a Supreme Court in the UK., as the German Federal Constitutional Court.
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#1000091 - 4th Feb 2016 4:32am Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: palemoon]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9681
Loc: Birkenhead
What I think you meant to say is that BJ wants the UK Supreme Court to have the power to challenge EU law in the same way as the German Federal Constitution Court can.

However, the German federal Constitution Court was set up to challenge Germany's own laws independently of the rest of their legal system, I don't think its power over EU law has been tested as yet but presumably they can impose will on their Chancellor which is a more democratic solution than we have.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1000098 - 4th Feb 2016 10:31am Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: palemoon]
Gibbo Offline
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Registered: 27th Dec 2010
Posts: 1722
Loc: Oxton
Another point of view to UKIP's broadcast:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016...ey-islamophobia

Quote:
Ukip has been accused of “baseless scaremongering” after it used a party political broadcast on the BBC to warn of the dangers of Turkey joining the EU, highlighting its Muslim population and claiming 15 million of its citizens could migrate to the UK.

The advert provoked a backlash from pro-EU campaigners and MPs, as well as claims of Islamophobia from Twitter users, some of whom said they were planning to report the party to Ofcom.

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#1000103 - 4th Feb 2016 11:40am Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: Gibbo]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13690
Loc: Wirral
Probably right. Turkey population has doubled in 40 yrs from
40 million to 80 million. Turkey is huge a concern, and always has been. They will run in this direction if given the opportunity. These people are fed up living in their own countries in squalor, and who can blame them ? They don't even need the money for their air fare anymore, they can walk from there.

Why does everyone jump on the Islamophobia band waggon ? We could start shouting that Islam is anti-semitic and anti Christian .....stupid people.

Europe, as it was intended is actually finished in my opinion and only those with significant interest such as businesses or EU jobs will be wanting to remain.

@DD. Yep, I think you might have got it there. That's what he was saying.


Edited by granny (4th Feb 2016 11:45am)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#1000105 - 4th Feb 2016 12:19pm Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: palemoon]
BandyCoot Offline

Forum Veteran

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 5346
Loc: Birkenhead
The trouble is that they don't want to stay amongst their own squalour but come out of it and bring all their medieval baggage with them and believe me they won't be satisfied until we all toe their line. You've only got to watch the programmes in which they appear, have a good old moan and then say that we should change our ways to accommodate their world view. Last Sunday's "The Big Question" is a good example of what I'm on about, they couldn't agree amongst themselves about what they wanted. Had experience of Turks in West Berlin for 7 years, they're not all bad but those who are more than make up for those who aren't. I even ended up in court because of one of the lying gits. Cleared by the way and in true German fashion he got done instead for telling porkies. Believe me, there may be trouble ahead. (As an adjoiner, the Turkish Cypriots were brilliant, no chip on their shoulders with the Brits.)
_________________________
Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.

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#1000106 - 4th Feb 2016 12:23pm Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: Gibbo]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9681
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: Gibbo
Another point of view to UKIP's broadcast:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016...ey-islamophobia

Quote:
Ukip has been accused of “baseless scaremongering” after it used a party political broadcast on the BBC to warn of the dangers of Turkey joining the EU, highlighting its Muslim population and claiming 15 million of its citizens could migrate to the UK.

The advert provoked a backlash from pro-EU campaigners and MPs, as well as claims of Islamophobia from Twitter users, some of whom said they were planning to report the party to Ofcom.


That is not what the UKIP broadcast said, it said 15 million could leave for Europe not the UK. Why are newspapers allowed to get away with drivel reporting like that! It is just plain irrefutable lies.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1000114 - 4th Feb 2016 2:53pm Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: palemoon]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2506
Loc: Wirral
I lean towards 'out' most of the time based on what Ive heard so far, but its hard to call , with all the flipping lies that are being trotted out and not a lot of reliable information .
I feel sure that after a bit of Brexit sorting time, economically and securitywise , we would manage fine but my main worry would be that I believe our exit would upset , seriously irritate, and alienate many countries (including America) big time and I fully imagine that whereas on a level playing field, we would have survived Brexit well, we may instead be looking at spiteful sabotage, plotting ,exclusion techniques and general revenge behaviour by the members of other governments, which if carried out in 'gang' mode , could seriously prevent us getting ahead economically. Although we are an island, and should be able to defend ourselves better than some, I can imagine that the remaining EU countries wouldnt lift a finger to help if we got into difficulties securitywise/invasionwise . Look at Ireland during the war, its said they deliberately left lights on to guide the bombers to the uk.


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#1000134 - 4th Feb 2016 6:25pm Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: palemoon]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13690
Loc: Wirral
I imagine the huge percentage would wish to end up in the UK. English is their second language as is the same with most countries. Not only that, for decades, all these countries had a dream of getting to UK, why do you think they all declared undying love for any English woman ? A means to an end. Same in the Arab countries, some of them have wives all over the world. Australia, UK, France... Very convenient!
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

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#1000159 - 4th Feb 2016 8:45pm Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: venice]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Guardian

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9681
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: venice
Look at Ireland during the war, its said they deliberately left lights on to guide the bombers to the uk.


You need to read the Cranborne Report, while Ireland was officially neutral, they assisted the allies on the largest scale possible while keeping the facade of neutrality. 50,000 Irish people joined the UK armed forces voluntarily.

Ireland risked the wrath of America by remaining officially neutral, the UK even tried to bribe the Irish government by offering them Northern Ireland if they dropped their neutrality and joined the allies. Overall it didn't do Ireland any harm, the Americans seemed to forgive them overnight as I am sure they would us if we left the EU.

America are a bit scared of the EU developing into a super-power, if the UK broke up the EU we may even be treated as heroes once the dust settled.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1000221 - 5th Feb 2016 9:37am Re: Poll : The E.U. What do we want? [Re: palemoon]
palemoon Online   content
Enthusiast

Registered: 27th Feb 2015
Posts: 178
Loc: wirral
Weird this. Last night I was telling some guys at my snooker club that I had started this poll and just out of interest we decided to take a poll in the club. The result were exactly the same as the results, so far, here. If this is an indication of the public's feelings it does make you wonder where the 'Stay' votes will come from.


Edited by palemoon (5th Feb 2016 9:38am)

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